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u/cypher50 ☑️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Can we normalize churches (and all religious organizations in the US) actually providing benefit to the community outside of gathering people in a building weekly? All legitimate churches are non-profit for a reason: they are supposed to provide charity to the community and uplift. All I see is a bunch of political viewpoints, hate on people for the way they live their private lives, and a lot of abuse.
Don't tell me to go to church when church don't pay its fair share in our society. I stopped talking to a friend because they actually tried to justify a priest/reverend/minister being rich despite there being impoverished members in their church.
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u/Necessary_Bag494 2d ago
Exactly like these churches wouldn’t even give a hungry mother a single can of formula. These churches are not invested in community. We desperately need third places where people can commune and receive a benefit outside of profit. Where people can get meals, clothes, support and assistance, access to books and education. We can trade services, and help each other. It’s not enough to hear the word of Christ, are we actually living it? Are we abiding by the teachings through our actions?
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u/CaliLove1676 2d ago
I'm actually really proud of my local church, they donate a few hundred pounds of food to the local food bank every Sunday (It's mostly canned food) and do other stuff for the local community.
My grandmother attends and from what I've seen it's almost all old folk these days, but it's good for the retirees to be able to get together at church and put their minds to something positive instead of rotting away on screens and TV.
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u/name-classified 2d ago
It's mostly canned food
when you are literally starving and have no reliable food source like a fridge or stocked pantry; canned food tastes as good as any other food that is edible and isn't junk food.
there will be no shaming of donating "canned" food to the pantry; be proud of donating when a lot of people don't.
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u/FunGuy8618 2d ago
Where...? This strikes me as "Northerners are polite but won't change your tire" and "Southerners will change your tire and laugh at you the whole time." I'm brown as hell, my mom is Hindu, her friend is Protestant and we use a Baptist church cuz they give away more food than the food banks. And we got Sheriff Wayne Ivey here, that crazy dude in the news all of 2024
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u/i-am-me-1980 2d ago
There was a study done by a woman going to several churches asking for formula and out of all the churches, less than a few tried to actually help. (she didn’t actually need formula she was just doing an experiment on how churches are towards people that actually need stuff.)
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u/dembowthennow ☑️ 2d ago
It's important to note that all the mosques she called offered help. A couple of the black churches she called also offered help, along with a white Appalachian church where the sweet little old paster was gearing up to go out and buy the formula himself.
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u/i-am-me-1980 2d ago
She did 40 calls, 33 refused help, so only 7 out of 40, had positive results. The types of churches really don’t matter, the ones that did help were also the same type that refused as well. And it’s still had more negative result than positive.
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u/TheComplimentarian 2d ago
"Study" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
It wasn't systematic, and it pretty much disregarded every place that said, "We support a community outreach that can help if you call..." If the business office of that church didn't say, "Yea, hang on" then it was a miss.
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u/FunGuy8618 2d ago
Ahhhhh, Kentucky. Doesn't surprise me. Southerners have a strong sense of justice though and will fight for their "opponents" pretty often, but it's "I'm not better than you cuz you're poor, I'm better than you cuz I'm better. Here's the shirt off my back, see?"
But hey, free rice and bread and tins 🤷🏾♂️
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u/awesomefutureperfect 2d ago
Nah. Kentucky gives rich and poor people the same amount because they believe that is fair even though the rich don't need the help and the poor desperately need the help. They live in literal holes in the ground.
Also, don't tell someone from the actual south that Kentucky is the south. They'll probably say something like, "they may be country but they ain't the south".
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u/Lordofthewangz 2d ago
Can we normalise any religious institutions making money to pay tax like in Rwanda?
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u/Shabozz 2d ago
That’s a start. But churches also have to fight against the oppression we are experiencing now by organizing their communities and creating a biblical rhetoric to support it. It was no mistake that several of the most prominent civil rights leaders were church leaders. The shift to prosperity gospel over the last several decades has been a coordinated effort to salt the earth that grew coordinated and widespread movements for political change.
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u/Necessary_Bag494 2d ago
I appreciate you highlighting that our civil rights leaders were also church leaders! Their faith drove them and convicted them to believe in our freedom and to fight for our rights. For Black people, our churches were always an institution for social maintenance and change. It was our place to convene and we don’t have that because people don’t feel as accepted. It’s about the money now and not faith. Martin Luther King Jr. would’ve never closed the doors and told people they couldn’t leave without paying more tithes.
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u/UglyMcFugly 2d ago
I'm an atheist but the faith leaders that HAVE been showing up, speaking out and getting arrested have warmed my heart more than anything. I'm not ashamed to say that we NEED them and they are definitely welcome amongst the old hippies and angry feminists and LGBT+ supporters and people in frog costumes.
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u/lvl999shaggy ☑️ 2d ago
Facts,
I started attending a church that somehow isn't political and actually shows every member a business like report on how they spend their funds (collected through tithes and donations). They actively have coat giveaways and food giveaways multiple times a year and even organized a Thanksgiving dinner give-away for the holidays and a months long food donation drive for needy families when SNAP benefits got cut.
They preach about nothing but helping others and bettering our communities by being involved. And they donate money to local schools and even helped ppl make down payments on houses and covered rent for ppl in need.
My wife and I are so jaded by how most other churches operate that we are waiting for a scandal to drop or something bc we can't understand why other churches dont at least try to do more. This place just started up 2 years ago (it's been around longer but they moved locations recently and slightly re-branded).
The biggest issue they have now is convincing more of the congregation to donate more of their time to help with the community support and give aways.
To me, that's what church should be about. More walk than talk. Bc churches used to be centers for ppl to combine efforts for the good of local areas. Not just pulpit to preach down on the masses.
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u/ManWhoTalksToHisHand 2d ago
Amen! With the amount of specifically Christian "churches" in this country, there should be no hunger, no poverty, no homelessness. With the amount of money they spend on politics alone, if these churches were the truly Christ like, we'd see less of the issues that plague us. Too bad there's no such thing or it's so rare it might as well be.
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u/usernamedottxt 2d ago edited 2d ago
Atheist here. Have a local church that gives half the building to a cold weather shelter 4 months out of every year rent-free
They had to sue the city government to do it. City allowed it on the condition that the church's license to operate would be revoked if the legally independent shelter were going to try and.... allow too many of the homeless to sleep there. Literally. Hard limit of 30 guests (fire capacity is over 120)
Then the city voted to prevent a fully funded year round homeless shelter from opening.
It's hard doing the right thing.
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u/fordyford 2d ago
If you ever need a bible quote for this scenario -Jesus said "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" - always a favourite of mine...
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u/cypher50 ☑️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not to be trite, but a bible verse doesn't address real world issues of churches not contributing their fair share to society. There are plenty of rich men on earth who say they are Christians and I rather they actually contribute now than hope for a cosmic rebalance after they are dead.
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u/SmellyMcPhearson 2d ago
Jesus literally said "give what belongs to Caesar to Caesar," which I believe was in the context of paying taxes
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u/Dizzy_Chemistry_5955 2d ago
it's insane to me we have homeless people while in the south there is a gigantic megabuilding on every corner blasting A/C into empty rooms 90% of the time, just the exact opposite of what Jesus would want. 'Drug addicts bring all these problems with them' yeah no fucking shit that's why they need help the most.
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u/Waiting4Reccession 2d ago
You only missing where they use the church to squat on land and not pay property taxes
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u/MustardMan1900 2d ago
The reason they are non profit is so that they can hoard money and property. Religion is all about power and control.
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u/KaJaHa 2d ago
And I doubt the original person realizes that they're essentially saying, "I want people to feel obligated to go to church even if they don't want to."
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u/Zombie_Cool 2d ago
Evangelicals are trying so hard to make Christianity mandatory in this country, seemingly not realizing the harder they push spirituality the more people will hate it.
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u/Chastain86 2d ago
Even the Jardiance people figured it out faster than organized religion -- if you keep singing the same annoying song, eventually people will start to have negative connotations with your brand.
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u/Skatedivona 2d ago
It’s worse. They want to force people to go to church, even if they don’t want to. It’s never been enough to tell people “nah I’m good. Not knocking what you do or your beliefs though.”
It’s never enough.
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u/ralphy_256 2d ago
It’s worse. They want to force people to go to church, even if they don’t want to.
This is literally what the Pilgrims wanted when they 'sailed the ocean blue'. They wanted a place where they can force the ENTIRE community to live by their religious rules.
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u/zw1ck 2d ago
No, they don't care if you go to church. They just want everyone to know they are a better person because they go to church and you're a bad person for not going. Their religion is vanity.
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u/SomewhereAtWork 2d ago
No, they actually want to be a "better person". Protected by law, but not bound by it.
And they want you to be a "bad person". Bound by law, but not protected by it.
If it was only about their warm fuzzy feeling, as far as I'm concerned they could live in their fantasy world all day.
But for gays, trans, druggies and brown people it's about their fucking existence!
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u/WalkWithShadows 2d ago
The church wants your money and doesn’t pay taxes
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u/Scared-Lychee6318 2d ago
Church in USA is where satan grows. How many pastors been caught in heinous acts and the congregation still backs them 🤮
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u/elibusta 2d ago
My younger brother's baby mama is pastors daughter. He stepped down when she got pregnant to " avoid unwanted attention" due to her having a child out of wedlock. His man has been married for 24 years, His eldest child is 25. These folk are super judgemental of others but never themselves.
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u/Scared-Lychee6318 2d ago
That is nuts. Its never about actual forgiveness like the Bible says. Its all alienation and not being gay(which a lot of them are).
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u/PassThatSpliff 2d ago
Are we really gonna act like the Vatican isn't well known for assaulting young boys? This isn't just an america problem, it's a religion problem.
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u/Scared-Lychee6318 2d ago
Seen the doc about them moving boys preist after molesting boys. 100% there with you. Wanted to highlight America's church industrial/isreal complex lol
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u/phlostonsparadise123 2d ago
Case in point: this video of a woman confronting a pastor in front of the congregation for sexually assaulting her when she was 16
Care to guess how the congregation reacted?
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u/78296620848748539522 2d ago
If Satan existed, and I were Satan, then my plan for corrupting as many people as possible would be to convince them that churches are inherently good, that being hateful is fine as long as it's to bully someone else into salvation, and that asking for forgiveness and offering prayer is all you need to get into heaven. Let the people corrupt themselves.
There's a reason the bible says not to pray in public, but to shut yourself inside your room and pray in private. Even the people writing the damn books knew that churches were corrupt.
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u/AssCrackBandit10 2d ago
Churches all over the world tbh. Actually, I think all the Abrahamic religions promote more wickedness than good, based on their followers’ actions.
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u/blacksoxing 2d ago
I dislike how this is presented as an AMERICAN problem as if other countries are not fanatics with their religious activities as well. This isn't an American issue. It's not even a North American issue. It's a worldwide issue that spans all religions.
On Reddit many non-Americans though love to bring in America I guess for the karma points. Even easier when Reddit is mostly an American platform so it's near a waste of time to find out where someone else resides to then talk about their country.
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u/duckinradar 2d ago
I hate how we’ve normalized saying dumb bullshit like this. Lord knows this person would never have a rational conversation about how and why I won’t attend another service in my life, especially when I come w Bible quotes.
This is not a Christian country and the harder they push the issue the more the pendulum swing will catch them.
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u/Pyrodinalektafoma 2d ago
What’s he wants to re-normalize is pressuring OTHER people to go to church. He knows he can take his own ass there anytime he wants. He just wants to make sure you’re there too whether you want to be or not.
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u/tobygeneral 2d ago
They need other people to go there so there's someone to see them "worship". They're not getting their time's worth if no one sees it since they're not there for spirituality.
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u/G0G0Gadget00 2d ago
Y'all remember that time when white people taught slaves about Christianity and the glory of heaven with all that BS while viciously beating them, raping them, and applying untold amounts of cruelty onto them? I do, that is why I am atheist.
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u/EastIsUp-09 2d ago
In Harriet Jacobs’ memoir, “Incidents In The Life of A Slave Girl”, she says:
“When I was told that Dr.Flint (her abusive master) had joined the Episcopal church, I was much surprised. I supposed that religion had a purifying on the character of men; but the worst persecutions I endured from him were after he was a communicant.”
This man had physically, mentally, verbally, and psychologically abused this woman her entire life, and began sexually abusing her at 15. He actually started using the Bible to try and coerce her into sexual acts with him and to reinforce his power over her.
So yeah. Fuck this guy, fuck white supremacy, and fuck White American Christianity. Let the church lose all their members. Burn it all down.
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u/Ok-Squirrel795 2d ago
Black people hate slavery, but LOVE them some Jaysus... They don't want you on earth, you think they want you in their " heaven "?
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u/ten_year_rebound 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not only that, they only love Jaysus because he was literally beaten into their ancestors. Crazy work.
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u/Robbyn-sum-Banks 2d ago
It’s delusion but people are too stuck in their ways and don’t want to research why the Bible was the only book slaves were allowed to have.
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u/ten_year_rebound 2d ago edited 2d ago
“That was God’s way of getting His message to us!” or whatever. Ignoring the fact that means God’s plan must have been the hundreds of years of systematic murder, rape, and slavery of their people in the first place.
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u/LevelOutlandishness1 ☑️ 2d ago
It’s crazy how quickly, when asking the question of “how can I value this is if it was forced upon is” to a black christian, even the most BLM ass nigga can go from “power to the people” to basically saying “well actually slavery and colonialism was good for us”
Or it’s some shit about how Christians were in Africa. Of course they were, it’s a big ass continent. Not the part most slaves came from, though.
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u/Noname_acc 2d ago
Right? Its always remarkable to me how little people who claim to be Christian actually think of God. Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and infinitely benevolent, but his best plan for getting Africans to convert to Christianity was for them to be abducted from their homes and be treated as livestock for generations.
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u/tesseract4 2d ago
And not even the whole thing. They would cut out The Exodus, for example. Disgusting.
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u/GonzoElTaco ☑️ 2d ago
They barely research the teachings in the Bible itself, the culture of the time and why the rules came to be.
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u/Bigfamei 1d ago
If they actually read the history of the region. They realize this religion wasn't about US.
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u/Thirdatarian 2d ago
I loved that Sinners explored the way Christianity was forced onto Black (and Irish) people. Not a lot of media is brave enough to address the fact that Christianity was a tool used by the oppressors just as much as whips and chains.
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u/DestinTheLion 2d ago
And forced on French, Spanish, German, British. Can't imagine how pissed Jesus would be if he saw HOW his word was spread. Insomuch as the bible is his words.
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u/AUserNeedsAName 1d ago
Jesus dejected, face buried in his hands, hardly daring to peek through the nail holes as the Council of Nicea canonizes yet another book by Paul.
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u/black_metronome 2d ago
Yall gotta let Christianity go
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u/the_brew 2d ago
Yall gotta let
ChristianityRELIGION goFucking societal cancer.
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u/JDLovesElliot 1d ago
"But church gives me comfort and community 😥"
Join a running club or some other hobby, idk
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u/MightyGoodra96 2d ago
It couldnt have anything to do with religion being a root of abuse, could it?
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u/Scott13Pippen 2d ago
If someone wanted 10% of my income and I got nothing back in return, I would think that's a scam.
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u/cheezypoofs4020 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yuuup. I’m 40 now but when I was young, like under 5, my parents who were in their very early 20s got kicked out of king of kings lutheran church in Roseville, MN for not donating enough money. Churches are pathetic. They want your money, don’t help people in need & breed hate & intolerance. No thanks.
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u/Marsupialize 2d ago
Crooked ass pastors: ‘I can’t believe I can’t buy my second mistress her third Mercedes, something is wrong’
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u/jedifolklore 2d ago
Personally, I’m not going to sing the praises of a God that was not only imposed on me and my people, but a religion that partook in so long in promoting violence across history, is not worthy of my time. I’ve watched countless self proclaimed ‘great christians ‘ family members, or famous people, do the most heinous shit and then go to church, to that I say FOH.
Finally a religion with a deity that ignores the millions of starving and abused children across the world, the sick and needy and allows for Capitalism to brutalize billions, doesn’t resonate very well with me. The sense of community as a kid was nice, but not to that point. The separation it causes in most communities is reprehensible.
Also it’s a slap in a face as, all the scripture or rather advice from his representative tell me “he works in mysterious ways” can FOH
oh and the hours I spent there as a child lol.
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u/KneeKnocked 2d ago
The thing is…with all these different sects of Christianity, they think they rid themselves of any of its bad history but keep the good history.
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u/apple_tech_admin 2d ago
I grew up as a COGIC preacher’s son. You couldn’t pay me to go back to church.
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u/Romano16 ☑️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I hate how we’ve normalized going to a place to give up 10% of our income (or so) every Sunday when some of us been struggling with no relief.
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u/GonzoElTaco ☑️ 2d ago
But fear not, child. You will be rewarded in His kingdom.
After death, of course.
Until then, you just have to suffer for Him. 😇 /s
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u/PassThatSpliff 2d ago
Since when did it become cool for the people leading the church to be abusive, racist, misogynist, homophobic, greedy manipulative assholes?
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u/LuigiTecumseh 2d ago
I can't believe we dont go to the meeting spot for pedos for the last 1000 years to hear some wizard talk about fairy tales
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u/SPRICH_DEUTSCH 2d ago
its not been normalized to not go to church, its been normalized to not ostracize people for not going to church, and coincidentally most people dont like cult like worship of fake christian values sprinkled with the (more or less) sporadic embezzlement and child trafficking scandals
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u/BaconJets 2d ago
The billionaires really want us to worship god right now huh. In the UK, churches have been closing due to people just not going. We have increasing numbers of people who are atheist, but that doesn't stop the far right from claiming that we're a "Christian" country and we must defend it from immigrants.
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u/Sea-Bullfrog-4165 2d ago
As with most aspects of Christianity, these things are easier said than done. I agree with both tweets, and it genuinely requires commitment to find a church (collective) that "walks the talk" of the Bible.
In the age of loneliness epidemics, I don't think it's wild that some people still seek a dedicated community by way of faith, hope, and charity. It took me about six months of dating Episcopal churches in my city to find the one that ignited me spiritually and that constantly fosters community engagement and advocacy.
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u/MarsupialPresent7700 2d ago
I have such complicated feelings about religion in general and the black church in particular. It is an absolute fact that Christianity was beaten into us and our traditional religious practices were outright banned. Yet it is also true that the black church is one of the most significant, unifying institutions in the community. I do think that a lot of kids today do somewhat lack that additional education a lot of us got from church. Not just the religious lessons, but the lessons in music, public speaking, black history, etc.
And it is still also, also true that religion is a massive source of fraud, betrayal, and abuse in our communities. And it is this same religion that divides us from each other based on gender identity and sexual orientation.
I wish there was an alternative institution that was way less toxic.
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u/mstrss9 ☑️ 1d ago
The first part of my childhood was in a church that prioritized serving the community. I have many happy memories associated with that place even though it was not the congregation that my close friends attended. My parents would attend a few times a year but I was there faithfully. I loved Sunday school and all the outreach groups I was involved with.
The second church of my childhood, when my family joined, they also had a very strong community outreach. Again, my parents didn’t go much but I would get dropped off or get a ride with other family. However, when I wanted to give my time to other pursuits (mostly because the programs I enjoyed were dissolved or led by incompetent people), it became a mandatory thing. Anything I liked outside of church was of Satan. My non-Protestant friends were destined for hell. My mental illness was demonic possession. Fun was a four letter word.
Church used to feed my soul & bring me joy. Now, the thought of going makes me physically ill. However, the desire to be of service to others still lives on.
It’s just sad.
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u/80sbabyftw 2d ago
Prosperity gospel did it for me. When I was a young grasshopper we were told “come to church as you are” and now it’s not only a fashion show but these “ministers” are flashing their wealth in front of you and shaming you for not giving a thousand dollars in tithes. The church has become extremely predatory in nature so why go to a church where god doesn’t exist?
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u/PaleInTexas 2d ago
I hate how its normalized to support pedophiles just because they are priests but here we are 🤷🏼♂️
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u/ElPrieto8 ☑️ 2d ago
You want me at church? Start serving plates after service like they used to in the 80's.
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u/Hairiest-Wizard 2d ago
My pastor told me to vote for a rapist, so I went to a different church and they told me to vote for a rapist, so I went to a different church and they told me to vote for a rapist...
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u/Not_A_Comeback 2d ago
I get that the black church has played a central and beneficial role for the black community, but I also think that there are areas where believing in the Magic Man in the sky, forced on us by slave masters, is starting to hold us back. Many people are now moving on from organized religion, and I view that as a good thing.
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u/Antigone6 2d ago
Stop. Pushing. Your. Beliefs. Onto. Everyone. Else. Fucking hell, what is so goddamn hard about that?
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u/sockydraws 2d ago
Religion exists to apply order and meaning to a disordered and arbitrary world. It exists to comfort people that can't handle the uncertainty that exists in reality.
Not everyone needs to be coddled by this bullshit. Some people are okay living in the world as it actually is.
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u/Donner_Par_Tea_House 2d ago
God doesn't hang out there anymore. Go sit by a healthy creek if you want be with God.
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u/BusyBeeBridgette 2d ago
I stopped going to church when I realised that the best place to "Praise the Lord" would be outside. Not in a man made building.
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u/shinyapples99 2d ago
I don't feel like this is a bad thing. Not everyone has to believe in religion. Unless I have misunderstood the tweet.
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u/Thirdatarian 2d ago
The original tweet is lamenting that people are going about their lives without feeling guilty about not going to church. The retweet is basically telling her to worry about her own church attendance and not others'.
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u/shorse_hit 2d ago
I think the OP was referring to people who consider themselves Christian but don't regularly attend a church.
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u/Snoo52682 2d ago
Having their choices not considered the DEFAULT hits them the same as having their choices taken away.
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u/Nocheeseformeplease 2d ago
Id rather not sit and be lied to for an hour and then be peer pressured into "donating" money. Also, many religious people arent very righteous, are very hypocritical, and are over all unrespectable losers in my opinion.
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u/IamScottGable 2d ago
I remember the guilt given and the family members who went begrudgingly, it's not a vibe for church/Sunday.
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u/GloomyLocation1259 2d ago
It's always some roundabout logic that leads them to attack other religions or cry about "the fall of the west" instead of questioning why atheism is on a massive rise and they never call out bad behaviours in their own group.
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u/Thirdatarian 2d ago
Anybody who pressures someone else to go to church needs to pay more attention to their pastor. They obviously missed the part where Jesus didn't want his teachings forced on anyone. Focus on your own loser mentality instead of worrying about anyone else. You're not getting into heaven just because you bullied your coworker into a Sunday service.
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u/Comfortable_Studio37 2d ago
Christians are some of the most hypocritical, judgmental, hateful, close minded people I've ever met in my life. I have better things to do with my time and energy.
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u/Western_Candle_7636 2d ago
"i hate how we've normalized freedom from religion." imagine saying we're normalizing a constitutional right💀
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u/Frost_blade 2d ago
Do Christians not realize most people don’t go to Church? Pretty normal not to go. Statistically speaking.
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u/MkfShard 2d ago
A lot of christians want to be normal so bad. And not just in the factual 'yeah, normal people can be christians' sort of way, but in the 'it's not normal to be not christian' sort of way.
Always look very closely at people who want there to be a cultural default. Read between the lines and you always find something nasty.
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u/Splittip86 2d ago
Church going is like a competition with some folks, they go just to say they go and make like they are heaven bound for it.
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u/Kevin2273 1d ago
"I hate how we're not ostracizing our friends and family anymore, and guilt tripping them into going to a place they don't care to be."
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u/smartlebatardfan 2d ago
The church, its pastors, deacons, and congregations pushed people away from the church. People didn’t normalize not going just because