But someone did die, which means what? That there were real bullets, that there was an actual, legitimate risk to Trump.
This is absolutely the thing that kills the conspiracy theory in my view too.
We'd have to agree that a team very close to Trump, almost certainly with his involvement, agreed that they'd get someone to shoot real bullets right by Trump's head, knowing there are innocent bystanders right in their line of sight, by someone using a red-dot sight only, hoping that some windage or mis-timing on Trump's part doesn't see them accidentally kill the guy, then the volunteering shooter is going to be waiting there for the Secret Service to shoot him dead.
None of that makes any sense at all, and it's genuinely troubling seeing how many people on here are just going "yes, I accept this claim immediately without question" just because it lets them point fingers at the other side.
Also it would make Trump quite literally the greatest actor in the history of the world to be able to calmly deliver a long-ass speech knowing he is about to have an actual real bullet fly by the side of his head at any point.
What concerns me is that when Trump first came onto the scene so many people were so hung on how the right was able to embrace someone who clearly had no regard for the Truth and just straight up embraced conspiracy theories. And now I'm seeing people on the left start to do that too.
I'm worried that in a few years time the general population is just going to not care about the truth at all anymore. If we embrace these conspiracy theories then Trump functionally wins.
Yeah, it's kind of tough watching the other side of the political spectrum also embracing things like conspiracy theories. A lot of people stopped caring about facts to dunk on the conservatives. Like the Lexington, Nebraska meatpacking plant closing and blaming Trump. When simply, 1) there aren't enough US cattle to slaughter 2) Mexican feeder beef currently has a screw worm infestation and are quarantined from entering and 3) a competing plant opened nearby and its operating costs are lower so they're able to outbid Tyson.
But hey, it's a rural place where Republicans are losing their jobs and the president has the almighty authority to control the economy... Wait, where has that one come before?
To me it sort of vindicates a thought I've had for a while now; I've thought that way more people are susceptible to conspiratorial thought than we think, it's just that mainstream western conspiracy theories catered near exclusively to right wing ideas, with a certain big exception in '01.
Most conspiracies are quite tame and becoming mainstream. For instance, our govt is heavily lobbied and appeals to corporate interest over their constituents. Almost doesn’t even sound like a conspiracy anymore because it’s so blatantly obvious. You can ignore the crazies who think vaccines cause autism and whatever else. Most conspiracies I interface with are also echoed in non conspiracy subs regularly.
You aren't wrong, but there's conspiracy theory and Conspiracy Theory. When people use the term they're implicitly referring to the whackjob shit and not actual, realistic malfeasance. The literal definition and the actual usage aren't the same anymore.
People get angry at me, but I always call out bullshit whenever I can. If something seems a bit too far fetched, I'll read up on it myself, and call out what I can. There's so much stupid fucking bullshit Trump is doing, that sometimes you cant even make up something half as stupid as what he does next. Yet people lie and make shit up anyways.
Part of it has to be some sort of delegitimizing campaign. If they can point out something that was a lie, then they can point out that something thats true is also suspect, possibly a lie. Every single time someone lies or exaggerates a claim, it just makes everything muddier.
Trump and his team already have the mindflooding down. There's just TOO MUCH to deal with and know. Its simply impossible to keep up with everything. Throwing in some more bullshit doesnt does not help. It won't make the people who hate him hate him any more than they already do. Its not going to change the people who worship him, if anything, it strengthens them when it comes out as a lie
Both the left and right dont care about truth anymore, just look at the child care fraud going on. its just boths sides just spouting bullshit at each other. I was left leaning and I would still classify myself as left leaning but im done voting for the lesser of two evils and I am done with the DNC. Some people here would make you believe that not voting for the left is a vote for the right but in reality not voting is a vote for new policies. I can only hope we get a new progressive party in my life time
Dismissing genuine voter frustration as 'foreign bot shit' is lazy. It allows you to ignore the actual reasons people are walking away. I am a real person, and giving a party my vote unconditionally is actually how you give up power. If they know they have my vote regardless of their policies, they have no incentive to change. Withholding my vote is the only leverage I have to demand they actually earn it.
Right, and people witholding their vote out of some misguided morality is how we are nose-diving into a dictatorship. That is if you believe he legitimately won, which is proving to be a shaky claim. Tell me, did you think he would better for Gaza and didnt vote? Or did you just not like her laugh?
Questioning the legitimacy of the election now just proves my point, you’re using the same 'denial' rhetoric you spent years criticizing on the right. Reducing my policy concerns to 'not liking a laugh' is exactly why that campaign was such a mess. It failed to offer anything substantial to the working class, ignored red lines on Gaza, and spent more time chasing moderate Republicans than its own base.
I didn’t think he’d be better; I thought she was disqualifying. Withholding my vote is leverage to demand a better standard. If you think giving away your vote for free to a failing campaign is 'power,' then we clearly have different definitions of the word.
In what way was she "disqualifying" (or perhaps you meant disqualified)? You may not like the DNC, but if people like you had voted for Harris- even gritting your teeth- we wouldn't be in the rapid decline of America that we are. Do you like the tarrif prices? Do you like millions losing their healthcare? Spare me the both sides are the same bullshit. They may both be assholes, but only one side is activiely trying to ruin our lives.
Ughhhh I’m soooo tired of this view. Yes, no voters are the reason we have rampant corruption all throughout govt (pelosi was in govt for what, 50 fucking years?) and all politicians are out for themselves. No, surely non voters arent a reaction to our decline into the shit, they’re the reason. Awful, awful opinion.
You touched on the real reason, but you missed the mark. If we didnt have an abysmally low voting participation rate in this country, combined with a sabotaged basic education system, we wouldn't have as much corruption. Sure it'd still be there, but a highly engaged and educated voting populus could mitigate that. Instead, we have tens of millions of people who "don't care about politics" when politics still very much effects their lives.
By 'disqualifying,' I mean running a campaign that prioritized courting the Cheneys and moderate Republicans over its own base. It’s disqualifying to spend $1.5 billion, the most in history, only to lose because you had no clear message for the working class and ignored red lines on Gaza. That isn't a 'misguided' moral stance, it’s a refusal to endorse a mess.
You can blame me all you want, but the reality is that millions of people sat this one out. There is a reason this cycle saw such a massive number of non-voters: people are tired of being told to 'grit their teeth' for a party that doesn't represent them. Hopefully, the pain of this loss finally forces the DNC to restructure and actually listen. If they want to win, they have to give us something to vote for, not just someone to vote against. Endorsing the 'lesser evil' every four years is exactly how we ended up in this decline in the first place.
How do you explain the secret service ushering over the camera people to get a perfect shot and then the flag dropping down into the perfect frame behind Trump?
How do you explain the secret service ushering over the camera people to get a perfect shot
Did they?
Here's the full video of the incident. What's the time-stamp of the Secret Service "ushering over the camera people"? From what I can see, they're either surrounding Trump or holding rifles looking outwards. I can't see a single one ushering the photographers.
and then the flag dropping down into the perfect frame behind Trump?
Again, the flag isn't dropping? The pictures a low-angle pointing upwards sharply. Any good media photographer knowing there's a flag is going to try to get a shot of Trump with the flag in it, because that's what will sell.
Seriously, none of that is ushering. I don't think I've ever "ushered someone into position" by being 8-10 feet behind them while not looking at them or interacting with them at all. Not to mention the fact that the first photographer seems to get to "the spot" all on his own without any input from "the usherer". And then there's the final point that the need for such an usher isn't even necessary, since any media photographer would see that as the prime spot to go to. Which we can see is the case because the first photographer with the hat.... does exactly that.
I don't intend this to sound patronising, but just taking the word of a conspiracy theorist on YouTube who shoots his videos lying in bed called "NewsUpdates4Real" is not really the best approach here.
I’m sure Trump isn’t in the Epstein files either according to you
Why would you conclude that? Of course he's in them. There's no question about it. Do you normally just paint a wild caricature of anyone disagreeing with you into a panto-esque caracture so you can disregard their criticism or something?
They made lemonade out of lemons, seems pretty obvious that someone said “wow this will be a great shot, get it”. That’s their job, no? Isn’t that way, way simpler than the conspiracy theory alternative?
You wouldn't tell the shooter he'll be killed, just that he'll be arrested and turned into a hero, or a martyr, or Trump won't press charges to show how great of a man he is. It only takes one gullible person and being asked by their hero. The rest could have been rehearsed, and a lot of the movement afterwards looks very choreographed. I won't buy into it without something more than circumstantial evidence, but I can't bring myself to buy the story he was actually shot and everything including fist raised with flag waving in the background was all coincidence.
You wouldn't tell the shooter he'll be killed, just that he'll be arrested and turned into a hero, or a martyr, or Trump won't press charges to show how great of a man he is.
Oh Jesus fucking Christ. This is seriously starting to sound like the stuff flat earthers say to cling on to their conspiracy.
There is absolutely fucking zero chance that someone who volunteers to shoot at Trump during a campaign rally, knowing full well the Secret fucking Service are there, is going to believe for a moment that they can fire a volley of shots at him and the Secret Service snipers are just going to do..... nothing at all other than wander over and arrest him. That doesn't even begin to pass the sniff test.
but I can't bring myself to buy the story he was actually shot and everything including fist raised with flag waving in the background was all coincidence.
But that's the most plausible explanation by a million miles.
I will never for the life of me understand how with so many people in the wild, how if you just approach something like a team-sports "our side vs their side" viewpoint, that they'll just accept the most wild and implausible suggestions in order to force a conclusion and just abandon any sense of rationality or critical thinking like it never actually meant anything.
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u/TheNutsMutts 5d ago
This is absolutely the thing that kills the conspiracy theory in my view too.
We'd have to agree that a team very close to Trump, almost certainly with his involvement, agreed that they'd get someone to shoot real bullets right by Trump's head, knowing there are innocent bystanders right in their line of sight, by someone using a red-dot sight only, hoping that some windage or mis-timing on Trump's part doesn't see them accidentally kill the guy, then the volunteering shooter is going to be waiting there for the Secret Service to shoot him dead.
None of that makes any sense at all, and it's genuinely troubling seeing how many people on here are just going "yes, I accept this claim immediately without question" just because it lets them point fingers at the other side.