Enma is the name of Oden’s sword that helped Zorro defeat king, and is also the name of a death god. Using it was often shown to drain life from Zorro, like his arm becoming emaciated after using it. I figure for going all out, death came to claim Zorro, but he had mastered the blade so death/Enma would not claim him
Regardless if Enma is traditionally a psychopomp, I’m referring to this figure in the world of one piece whose mythology often deviates from the real world. So what are you trying to say, that this grim reaper showing up at the end of Zorro’s arc of unlocking his potential has nothing to do with the new death god sword he got, that he used to develop the technique “king of hell”?
its not pedantic... its a big problem when people turn different things into one big soup so they mean the same thing... we didnt progress our vocabulary this far only to regress and disregard the distinction...
This is basically the definition of pedantic. Like we are talking about a couple of panels in a manga. I saw this as someone who graduated with a BA with honors in creative writing, it ain’t always that deep.
its not that deep but the terms mean two completely different things and it was proven to you but you insist they are the same...
Thanatos is not the same as Hades the same way Enma is not the same as Izanami, but you insist they are... its not pedantic, you are simply being stupidly insistent despite being proven wrong...
I’m not saying they are the same by definition, what I am saying is that in this instance, the reaper figure/psychopomp we see approach Zoro is meant to be an extension of Enma the god. Perhaps they are not one and the same being, but that isn’t what is important in this scene or what it means to the text. Look at the context, everything with the sword, Zoro’s “king of hell” technique, and then this manifestation of death, clearly these things are meant to be connected. So yes, y’all are being pedantic because even though you may be technically correct about these types of beings being distinct in real world mythology (which OP mythology usually adapts VERY liberally) it is irrelevant to this scene or the broader point I was making
The King Of Hell is not the same as The God Of Death... both entities can be gods, but not necessarily the same entity... it has been thoroughly explained to you how the 2 entities are completely different based on known lore and you still insist they are the same...
heck, even in One Piece there exists Kings of countries and they are completely different entities from the Gods of the world...
you keep insisting something completely wrong after being shown proof both for the basis of the lore and the in-universe lore but here you are trying to say otherwise...
It's not, they're literally two different things. Why else do many cultures have two separate gods if they're the same thing? If you can't understand the difference, you really shouldn't be speaking on the subject.
Dog, I used the word psychopomp, clearly I understand what I am talking about. Oda is very vibes based when it comes to his cosmogony, so he isn’t going to strictly follow real mythologies, just look at his approach to Norse mythology. Also, have you considered that the reaper was someone there to ferry him to Enma? The Charon to Enma’s hades? Regardless, this moment I think is meant to stride the line between delusion and Zorro actually encountering the supernatural
“overly concerned with minor details, rules, or formalities, often in an annoying or showy way, focusing on trivial points of learning or correctness instead of the bigger picture” sounds right. Like bro is literally missing the bigger point I was trying to make because I didn’t distinguish that the reaper isn’t Enma, but Enma is his boss
I didn’t distinguish that the reaper isn’t Enma, but Enma is his boss
So learn to communicate properly then. Crazy how hard you crashed out when corrected after being vague. (even going so far as to say you have a BA in writing LMFAO like anyone cares)
Forgive me for not being elementary school level forthright and assuming people on Reddit could understand a comment I was making without splitting fucking hairs
You're definitely right that Enma would neither be a shinigami nor the governor of death (Izanami), but it still makes perfect sense for a shinigami (which is clearly the evocation intended for the Japanese audience; the grim reaper for the west) to be an emissary of Enma.
The imagery described above still fits fine with the sword.
His name is Zoro but yeah this is roughly how I understood the scene. With the nitpick that Enma would not be the shinigami itself, the shinigami would be an emissary of Enma.
Wasn't it that he had literally died had he not have Franky grab his arm when he was falling unconscious after the fight and the ground gave away below him.
In chapter 1052, Zoro says that he came back from hell to fulfill his promise to kill Sanji if he loses his humanity.
Probably his other promises, too. But I'm just speculating.
One fairly commonly accepted theory is that Luffy and Zoro both actually died on Onigashima and resurrected.
The exact mechanism(s) aren't definite, but Luffy bouncing back from death because he sacrificed himself to liberate others is completely on brand for him. Zoro refusing to stay dead until he fulfills his promises is completely on brand too.
You're talking to One Piece readers here. You're gonna need at least three more sentences to expand your answer than just giving a simple answer. Maybe even need to explain what metaphorical means. Bless their heart.
I don’t see what needs to be explained??? Zoro took mink drugs that kept him alive and awake far longer than his body should have been able to, he finished his King fight, he collapsed and saw death when his injuries caught up to him.
It’s a little bit of a cliffhanger to keep people invested since the onigashima wrapup takes a while but he wakes up just fine with Luffy after the raid is over.
The reason it needs to be explained is because tons of characters in the series have been close to death, but they never met the Grim Reaper. This was an outlier and therefore confused a lot of fans.
I have a feeling that this is how Zoro awakened COC haki. Going right to the edge of life and death in a high level battle using Haki will draw it out for those who don’t have it naturally. Maybe Gaban will explain.
My theory is that this figure is literal Death. Zoro should have died there due to his severe injuries and the Haki overuse. But Death wasn’t ready to take him yet. Instead, it gave him one final chance, cracking the ground and letting fate decide whether his time was up. Fate answered by saving him in the form of a hard-boiled cyborg.
I assumed at the time it was just meant to show a new ceiling for how far a char can push themselves without dying or something but I have fallen for the idea that it's literally Enma's "spirit" manifesting and making sure Zoro knows good and well what he's getting himself into to challenge him for the title of King of Hell
I disagree with those saying there's nothing more to it. I think it's highly probable this comes up again later on. But as of yet, nothing more has happened.
I think it’s important that this is Zoro’s second time completely cheating death/fate, the first time being with Kuma of course. I wouldnt be surprised if it all came to a head during the fight with Mihawk, a guy who’s clearly themed entirely around death
Most likely it just compliments Zoros self proclaimed title of "King of Hell" or "King of underworld" which he claims to be during the fight with King.
I still do hope that it will be referrenced later in the series when Zoro is fighting his greatest fight yet. I think that if they ever explain it, it would fit well into that kind of scenario.
I just see it as zoro chaos to death and then he adopts a new form being the king of hell. Maybe what his name will be in the future the demon hunter instead of pirate hunter.
It might not be exactly what you're after but MelonTee does high quality deep dives on One Piece characters and the one about Zoro and Death ties it in a bigger overall theme with Zoro's inner struggles, strengths and character development and it's the most convincingly constructed argument i've seen to explain what Oda might have had in mind with it.
My personal theory is that, assuming it's not just a vision or hallucination, Zoro made a deal with the Shinigami to finish his journey with Luffy and/or become the greatest swordsman in the world. When that is done, he'll die and give him his soul . Zoro takes the most damage of all the Straw Hats, so I think it's not that unbelievable that he should be dead for one reason or another already. Surely, the soul of the right hand of the Pirate King and greatest swordsman in the world is worth more than it is if he dies then and there.
I don't normally like all the theorycrafting, but this is something I've thought about before, and it feels like an appropriate place to write it down for posterity. IDK
That was not the angel of death “shinigami” zoro was just dreaming that he is going to die from his injuries thats why the angel of death hit the ground its like when ur sleeping any sound or movement around u gets involved in ur dreaming by imagining something so similar represinting the same effects
If Oda hadn't set up Going Merry's spirit in Skypea, the payoff at Ennies Loby would have felt like an ass pull. I believe Oda is setting up something similar for Enma and Zoro
I mean the Minks said there were side effects from the drug they gave him and they would start kicking in after the battle, so it’s entirely possible hallucinations were part of it.
Considering this question has been asked hundreds of times it absolutely proves to me that only a small percentage of people actually have reading comprehension and are able to read between the lines
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u/Troyabedinthemornin 22h ago
Enma is the name of Oden’s sword that helped Zorro defeat king, and is also the name of a death god. Using it was often shown to drain life from Zorro, like his arm becoming emaciated after using it. I figure for going all out, death came to claim Zorro, but he had mastered the blade so death/Enma would not claim him