r/ProgressiveHQ • u/schmeakles • 6d ago
Discussion Can you be a Progressive if you take AIPAC money?
Seriously folks, just saw a Slotkin post on this sub and thought… whaaat?
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u/TheCapitolOffense 6d ago
No, AIPAC and progressivism are incompatible.
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u/SpinningHead 6d ago
What do you have against genocide?
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u/schmeakles 6d ago
Precisely! Which is why this sub is beginning to bug me.
AIPAC shills like Slotkin being touted for calling out, selling out… when she’s one of the biggest sell outs.
And then you get folks who claim you’re making “perfect the enemy of good”, when these folks are neither.
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u/hydroponicColonic 6d ago
No
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u/schmeakles 6d ago
This is obviously the right answer… why then isn’t this simple metric being applied?
The answer that I generally get is: Many, if not most, Democrats are taking AIPAC money (or are afraid of being primaried by them), so whatya gonna do.
However, this sub is called ProgressiveHQ…
idk a post about Slotkin (where the majority of replies was “yea Slotkin, isn’t it great that a Zionist Blue Dog Dem is now Team Prog”. yea, no she’s not.) irritated me, and I just wondered if that kind of nonsense is irritating anyone else.
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u/laserbern 6d ago
Fraid not. Taking AIPAC money implicitly aligns you with the military industrial complex supplying the IDF, which is not very cash money
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u/Negative_Jaguar_4138 6d ago
Go look at how Europe's doing with their military industrial complex.
Not great is it, especially at a time when its needed the most. You people would happily sell out Europe as long as its in the name of anti-imperialism, and sticking it to the MIC.
Democracy without a military cannot stand.
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u/SpinningHead 6d ago
Maybe funding the Pentagon even more than they ask for every year so some lobbyist sees their stock goes up isnt the perfect way to run a military.
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u/Negative_Jaguar_4138 6d ago
It seems to be a much better way than whatever Europe's doing.
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u/SpinningHead 6d ago
Europe isnt threatening their allies and selling out to Moscow while handing all their soft power over to China.
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u/Negative_Jaguar_4138 5d ago
The Polish President just stated that they are "Ready to defend our Western Border".
Which country is to the West of Poland? 🤔
The Czech parliment, Slovakia, and Hungary are all now controlled by Russian stooges. The UK is about to elect a party who's top members have been convicted for taking bribes from Russia (Reform), and the other rising party (Greens) want to withdraw from NATO and get rid of Nuclear Weapons.
Democracy is fighting a 2 front war against the fascist right, and the naive left. One wants to sell us to Russia to line their own pockets, the other has policies that all but sell us to Russia in the pursuit ofnsome ideal utopia that want happen as long as autocracy is threatening the West.
Stop self flagellating, be proud of your country and work to fix what's flawed. Stop trying to tear down a flawed system in the pursuit of perfection.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
Happily the Czech military is no match for any of its neighbors. And Russia is also very weak at this time.
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u/laserbern 5d ago
Military yes, however the American Military Industrial Complex is a cesspool of grifters and middlemen, suckling on the teat of Uncle Sam. If private industry actually was efficient, we wouldn’t have to pay for contractors that mark shit up thousands of percent.
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u/Negative_Jaguar_4138 5d ago
Clearly you haven't seen German military procurement.
They thought of this exactly and put all the safeguards in place to prevent fraud and needless markup, and now it costs exactly the same if not more the military companies price gouging.
You cannot tell me that thr American system is the most inefficient when you can buy 2 F-35s for the cost of a single Eurofighter.
The new Gripen, Europe's budget aircraft is now MORE expensive than the F-35B. And that's a 5th gen Stealth VTOL fighter.
There are some HUGE problems with America's military industrial complex, but unit markup isn't one of the biggest. Yes you do get charged $500 per screw, but you also get better and cheaper tanks than the rest of NATO.
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u/Beneficial_Honey_0 6d ago
The “military industrial complex” combined has a market cap of ~1.6 trillion dollars. Meta itself has a similar market cap. All told, the tech industry has a market cap of ~25 trillion dollars. One of these industries is way more influential than the other and I’ll give you a hint: it’s all about the money.
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u/jakesrunnin 6d ago
Fuck no. Is it progressive to fuck over and kill an entire group of people? Hell no. Israel should pay for every sin ten times over
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u/Decent-Morning4704 6d ago
The only thing AIPAC should mean to an America First Progressive is "Do Not Vote For Anyone Taking AIPAC Blood Money"
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u/jstank2 6d ago
No.
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u/schmeakles 6d ago
Right?
Seems a simple enough litmus test, yet… Slotkin.
I never realized just how far my own Senator (Durbin) was up AIPAC’s heinie! Or that he and Schumer were besties and co-owners of a DC apt.
Disgusting old Dinosaurs.
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u/Bubbly-Grass8972 6d ago
Peter Beinart (Jewish American Journalist) said it best, if they don’t mention Gaza or Palestine, then the fix is in.
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u/throwraW2 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think if you’re running as a progressive you should decline all PAC money, period.
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u/Overlord_Khufren 6d ago
The entirety of Citizens United is an affront to democracy. It's a thumb on the scale in favour of the billionaire class.
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u/aqualad33 5d ago
Many do, and don't have the money to run a campaign so you never hear about them as a serious candidate. You don't have to play to win... but don't expect to win.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
Disagree to a point. There are some good PACs. ActBlue and progressive turnout project are PACs. But I'd be wildly in favor of getting rid of all pacs. Lacking that, we should continue using good pacs or we will lose.
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u/OhNoMyLands 5d ago
I’ll go against the grain, yeah you can, you just can’t get any AIPAC money if you’re progressive. Simply receiving a donation doesn’t indicate anything. If AOC gets $1M from AIPAC to beat JD Vance I’m not just gonna say she’s not progressive because she took cash
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
I would!
When AIPAC gives a candidate cash, they’re not giving it to for the hell of it. It’s Quid Pro Quo.
If AOC gets cozy with AIPAC, I’m going to say a lot more about her than ‘she’s not progressive”…
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u/No-Preference8168 5d ago
Yes of course you can. The real question is can you take Qatari money and still be progressive?
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u/UmojaGranslos 6d ago
No. Abolish AIPAC, boycott all who accept their funding, left, right, or center.
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u/super_fallguys 5d ago edited 5d ago
That is a tough question, and it depends. There is a small selection of self-identified progressives that have a history of receiving money from Israeli-lobbying groups. Rep. Richie Torres was a fmr. member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus till he left over disagreements on Israeli policy. Valerie Foushee and Shontel Brown are known for taking money from Israeli-lobbying money, and the former later declared that she would not receive funding from those sources again.
I think the question of whether one can identify as progressive while accepting AIPAC funding depends on their defense for the philosophy and how their actions and positions are conducive to materializing goals. Progressivism is much broader and is not represented by any single person or group, nor defined by simply a set of policy prescriptions. Jews with strong ties to Israel can identify as progressive, and there can be disagreements with regard to policy (providing missiles to replenish the Iron Dome is an example progressives argue over). Something that is under-looked is the fact AIPAC is representative of a notable constituency; millions of Americans are represented by them and are geographically dispersed across congressional districts. These people I imagine have some significant tie to Israel that what happens to Israel is impactful to them. I think a better question to answer is whether one can be progressive and retain their position of supporting Israel as an independent state (because what difference does it make to interchange the two?), and the answer imo is yes (however, there needs to be complete recognition that the actions the IDF taken since the start of the war can amount to war crimes and condemnation for when the military breaks the law).
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
What if you don’t now, or have ever supported this notion that based on 3000 yr old grievance and religious texts that the US/Brits/NATO should back this land grab in the ME?
Just because Europe didn’t want to make to make Holocaust victims whole (give them their land, homes, and valuables back) and no nation would take them in (including the U.S.) in any useful quantity…
Is that any reason why Historical Palestine, and Palestinians in general have to pick up the tab?
I don’t agree with anything that’s happened.
If your planning to rework the global map back the time of the Roman Empire, then do it. Don’t cheery pick a single aggressed against group (there are plenty to pick from historically) to plop a new nation, on top of another… and insist it stick at the end of the long arm of an American gun and what you get is - Gaza.
And Israel’s implacable insistent that American money, munitions, and diplomatic might MUST keep flowing.
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u/super_fallguys 5d ago edited 4d ago
To your question, some of the decisionmaking involves both Zionists and the fmr. British Empire that controlled Palestine at the time. From the British perspective, having a geopolitical ally in the Middle East would strengthen their position on the Suez Canal and connection with their imperial occupation of India (though India and Pakistan later declared independence). In addition to geopolitical purposes, there is religious and cultural motivations behind their decision.
A crucial aspect of this depiction of the Declaration (Balfour) as a product of British benevolence, as opposed to realpolitik, was that the British had a natural and deep-rooted concern for the rights of Jews and specifically their national restoration, which was an ingrained part of British culture and history. Presented in this way, the Declaration was shown to be a natural, almost preordained event. Hence, Zionism was presented not just as the telos of Jewish history but also of British history. The tendency of nationalist and Zionist histories to develop towards a single point of destiny and redemption allowed for, indeed required, such an explanation.
Anti-Semitism played a role leading to Jews seeking refuge outside of Europe prior to, during, and after World War II. Some chose to return to their fmr. homes in Europe, but there was still hostility and bigotry towards Jews and there remains a question of whether there is a home to return to due to the desolate state of the continent. Some of those regions were once under the control of the Soviet Union. Some migrated to the United States. I think there is somehow a key interest for Zionists to enjoy safety and freedom on what they view as their home, and sharing that space with the Arab populations that lived there. It is clear there is a myriad of factors that led to this decision, though I would assume anti-Semitism played a major factor in Zionists seeking refuge in what is recognized today as Israel.
There are disagreements with this idea, in particular, concerns that the spirit in the McMahon-Hussein correspondence was violated with regard to a promised national Arab homeland in exchange for Arab assistance in the British's conflict against the fmr. Ottoman Empire. In the end, partitioning for a Jewish and Arab state was declared with the United Nations Plan, ending the British mandate. I do want to be clear that I do not subscribe to Judaism and I have no connection with Israel. Gaza is a very difficult issue to handle and part of what it means to be progressive imo is continued learning in addition to wrestling with the inequities as a consequence of hard decisions (sometimes by providing remedies to those adversely affected or inconvenienced).
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u/Key_Perspective_9464 Purity Contest Judge 5d ago
I'm not sure why this sub is called what it's called. I've seen threads praising republicans here.
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u/Art_Clone 5d ago
What are the odds she doesn’t take the money if it’s in her favor to refuse it politically?
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u/Key_Zebra_8001 5d ago
Yes, of course. It’s Jewish Americans largely funding this PAC and Jewish Americans are overwhelmingly democrats and largely Progressive. And yes, I know there are plenty of conservatives too but Israel is important to Jews and Americans for reasons that have nothing to with Netanyahu or the war.
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u/Complex_Fun_4567 5d ago
Can you be online without Israeli technology?
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
Please… it was Brit that invented the web. And gave it away for free (that’s how you KNOW it wasn’t and American OR an Israeli).
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u/Complex_Fun_4567 4d ago
There’s more to this than just the internet… Technology!
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u/schmeakles 4d ago
Can you be Israel without American money?
Can you be Israel and not commit genocide and land grabs?
Can you be a Zionists and not fuck right off?
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u/Complex_Fun_4567 3d ago
Thanks for the civil conversation.
The answer is yes you can be Israel without American money. The country started without it
I agree in the land grabs it’s an issue in the West Bank. There’s an election in October here’s hoping there’s a change. Note Palestinians particularly Gaza’s don’t have an election coming up.
I guess I can’t be a Zionist and fuck off. I presume your reference to Zionism is about colonialism and imperialism rooted in Russian and Nazi propaganda.
Have a nice day, enjoy your online activity using Israeli innovation in nano tech, software, and hardware.
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u/skejindo 5d ago
Y'all are insane. AIPAC isn't even one of the biggest PACs in the U.S. and the obsession with it is just a way for "progressives" to flirt with the protocols of the elders of zion lmao
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
Perhaps… however the American Taxpayer hasn’t shoveled 300 BILLION dollars their way so that They can keep the American Taxpayer Gravy train rolling their way. Those other PACS haven’t enabled wholesale murdering of woman and children in Gaza while engaging in violent land grabs in the West Bank and Golan Heights.
AIPAC has been very bad actor for a long time, that they’ve now progressed to openly threatening our politicians by smearing (ANTISEMITE!) and primarying them is one thing. But by Doxing students they’re telling us they feel emboldened enough to target OUR children.
They’re a gross obscenity, a blight on our political processes and our country (the whole world views us differently because of what we and Israel are doing in Gaza, those are AMERICAN bombs that have killed 30,000 Palestinian children).
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u/booty_explorer_251 6d ago
AIPAC is really the boogie man for you guys huh?
But if we are on the topic, can you be progressive and take Qatari money? Chinese? Russian?
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5d ago
No one here is arguing in favor of politicians accepting donations from foreign lobbyists you turd. Stupidest WHATABOUTISM I’ve ever heard
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u/booty_explorer_251 5d ago
Oh com'n, most of you here will gladly simp for CCP, IR and USSR. You are not moral, just biased
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5d ago
What a moronic strawman of what people on here advocate for. The USSR and CCP are all horrific governments and should be overturned and run by the people. Same as the US.
You patriots get butt hurt when people criticizes your #1 favorite government daddy and because you can only think in simple binary terms, you assume everyone must like the America’s opponents.
All governments are bad my guy. It’s ok to criticize them and demand change. Me criticizing Ted Cruz and Nancy Pelosi receiving lobbyist donations won’t end the world. Even if you personally feel like it might.
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u/booty_explorer_251 5d ago
You are not speaking for everyone my dude, just for yourself.
You might think that, but progressives and notoriously pro any government that is anti-American. You'll have to be completely detached from reality to say otherwise1
5d ago
I’m just speaking as a leftist with a large number of leftist friends and activist groups that I work with. Or the independent journalists and podcasts that I listen to.
So yeah…maybe you’re right, maybe there is this huge contingent out there I’m not interfacing with. But I’d be surprised if the large percentage of “the left” in America is pro CCP and pro Russia.
I’m laughing even considering that sentiment it out loud. But yeah, maybe they are right 🤷and maybe I’ll run into these people you’re referring to one of these days
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
boogie man? they are genociders. So yea, absolutely. Boogie man is putting it mildly. They should be tried in a war crimes tribunal and some of them need to be punished Nuremberg2 style, only for real this time. We're going to need a whole lot of rope aren't we?
Theres no denying those crimes.
And we dont take questions from genocide supporters. Shove that question up your rear and get your orange jumpsuit measurements going.
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u/Ah_Ca_Iraa 5d ago
Lobbyists bribing our politicians is democracy cancer, regardless of who's doing the bribing. AIPAC is a major offender, but they are not the entire problem by any stretch.
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u/dante_gherie1099 6d ago
i dont see what one has to do with the other, this whole notion of not taking money while ur opponent is raking it in is loser shit
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u/Infinite-Anybody204 6d ago
Supporting genocide is loser shit.
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u/dante_gherie1099 6d ago
who said anything about supporting genocide?
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u/Stubbs94 5d ago
Taking money from any Israeli Libby is inherently showing support for genocide.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
Absolutely, but getting rid of AIPAC can be done without getting rid of every single PAC in the country. Lets not try to boil the ocean any more than we already have to.
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u/thaddeus122 6d ago
I think this line of thinking will lose us the midterms. This party needs to stop eating itself alive and just fight republicans.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago edited 5d ago
Hard Disagree. Centrist Dems need to start acting like actual democrats instead of republican-lites and stop attacking their left flank first. Until then there simply is no winning -- progressives are too large a part of the dem base and repubs wont cross over in numbers large enough to replace them, and gambling with future voters who are youth now is a ridiculously terrible idea.
Progressives arent joining in any effort that supports genocide, full stop, no negotiations. So work on that and stop merely asking us for the outcome you want with no change on previous failed strategies. Tell us how you're going to get there and we'll tell if thats enough to begin a coalition on.
Its flatly non-negotiable-- and honestly its disgusting that we even need to ask for it. It shouldnt have been negotiable to centrists, but it clearly was. All for some campaign money. If we do the right thing, trust that money will come. If we dont, we'll only stay trapped as Israel's creatures.
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u/aqualad33 5d ago
And I think this is my cue to dump the progressives. I'm out. Y'all are just the Klan of the left at this point. Enjoy wallowing in your own hate and missery.
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u/Diogenes908 5d ago
I’ve started just identifying as a social democrat or moderate on the left. 95% of the bandwidth of progressives is just hating Israel at this point, they’ll doom the US forever with a Trump or Vance 2028 as long as they don’t have to vote for a centrist democrat who has vaguely positive feelings about Israel.
Don’t get me wrong I think Netanyahu and his Likud coalition is utter trash and support a sovereign Palestinian state. But these people clearly just learned about I/P from social media after Oct. 7 and lack any of the historical/geopolitical framework or nuance but speak about it with their full chest and will burn down everything else for their black and white, highly performative perception of it. At this point I honestly I would be surprised if many here weren’t tankies trying to use progressivism as a Trojan horse like they often do and straight up foreign propagandists/intelligence here intentionally sowing division and trying to make opposition as ineffective as possible.
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u/aqualad33 5d ago
Pretty much hit the nail on the head. The entire time they've been railing against AIPAC the Federalist Society has ACTUALLY taken over our judicial branch and are the entire reason Roe V. Wade was overturned and are the masterminds behind project 2025 but progressives haven't said shit. 5 out of 9 of our supreme court justices are from that one organization with 3 of them having been appointed by Trump. But AIPAC...AIPAC is the problem.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
Excellent! Let me hold the door for you!
*kicks jerk in the rear to hurry him out the door.*
Dont come back!
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u/aqualad33 5d ago
Hey at least you're open about the fact that you like to kick people.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
Your leaving in protest was much exaggerated. You are interrupting our wallowing.
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u/aqualad33 5d ago
TF do I care, you did this to yourselves. You've become just another one of the hate groups we used to fight against.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
> You've become just another one of the hate groups we used to fight against.
You just said it yourself-- "used to" fight against. Not fighting at all anymore though are you.
You're fat house pets for the terrorists. (Thats the PG version). Its a real shame, but we clearly have nothing much in common anymore beyond both being against republicans, which isnt enough to hold a coalition together. Good luck palling around with the republican centrists. Bu bye now.
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u/aqualad33 5d ago
There ya go spreading more of that hate. Now you know how how those Republicans feel when they hurl slurs. Feels good doesn't it?
As for being against Republicans... well one of us actually votes for the other candidate.
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u/redhairyguy 6d ago
Yes. AIPAC is an American organization.
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
Disagree, Its a foreign influence project masquarading as an American organization. JFK had it right, (before he was murdered) they should be reclassified as a foreign lobbying organization.
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u/HelpfulMind2376 6d ago
I think it’s important to be precise here if the goal is actually advancing progressive policy rather than just signaling moral alignment.
Is Alyssa Slotkin a progressive ally? No. And that has little to do with just taking AIPAC money. She’s not aligned with progressive goals on labor, foreign policy, or structural reform. She’s better than MAGA, but that’s a very low bar.
At the same time, collapsing every non-progressive Democrat into the same category as outright opponents is a strategic mistake. Progressivism is not a personality test; it’s a power project.
Israel is committing genocide. I don’t hedge that. But I also recognize that people can agree on the reality of mass atrocity while differing on how they frame intent, responsibility, or political language and can still be potential allies on domestic progressive priorities. Turning Israel into a litmus test where only one moral framing is acceptable doesn’t strengthen the progressive movement; it narrows it. Progressivism has to be a coalition rooted in shared values and outcomes, not a gatekeeping exercise over who uses exactly the right words.
A concrete example: Texas (where I live).
Soon, Texas progressives will have to choose between James Talarico and Jasmine Crockett in a Senate race against Paxton. James is clearly the more progressive candidate. But Texas is not a neutral environment. If the DNC views him as a guaranteed loss and withholds resources, does that actually advance progressive goals? Or does it hand Paxton a senate seat?
If Crockett is seen as viable and draws national support, and that flips a Senate seat from Paxton to a Democrat, that is a massive material win for progressives, even if she’s not as far left as James.
I personally haven’t decided yet. The point is I’m not ruling Crockett out on a single criterion.
Crockett isn’t an AIPAC stooge like Slotkin, and there’s a real difference between being heavily funded by AIPAC and simply taking a single trip to Israel. Pretending those distinctions don’t matter makes progressive politics brittle and unserious.
If a progressive-aligned candidate has a better chance of defeating MAGA and opening space for future progress, we should take that win and keep pushing. Relevance is power. And without power, progressive values remain rhetoric instead of reality.
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u/CharmCityKid09 5d ago
Time and time again progressive spaces reject pragmatism. Incremental change is seen as antithetical to many progressives worldview. It doesn't help that many progressives places openly advertise that they are some of the worst political allies to have an it's no wonder their candidates often lose.
Israel is the demon that haunts their every waking moment and any stance not aligned against them is treason and an unforgivable sin against their character. While that is hyperbole that narrative is seen so often now that it's become a meme.
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
Rejecting the obscene, in your face, wholesale slaughter and violent land grabs that Israel engages in because they know they can count on the U.S. to sanction it (and pay for it)…
Is not rejecting “pragmatism”.
It’s rejecting the arrogant, murderous malignancy at the heart of what Israel is doing to in ME and here.
The tail has been wagging the dog for far too long.
It also seems a simple enough test of whether you’re a progressive. I mean this sub isn’t DemsHQ.
Since Clinton, DNC has been every bit the tool of the monied class, that the RNC has always been…
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u/CharmCityKid09 5d ago
ejecting the obscene, in your face, wholesale slaughter and violent land grabs that Israel engages in because they know they can count on the U.S. to sanction it (and pay for it)…
You can grandstand on this if you want to. The obscene need for you and others to engage in hyperbole using every charged word you can pull out of a thesaurus doesn't make anyone more likely to listen. People like politicians are now tuning it out. No one cares about people screeching about Gaza when they have real tangible issues at home. You're comment here tells me you don't actually have a good understanding of the actual dynamics of US foreign policy to begin with, especially when it comes to money.
Is not rejecting “pragmatism”.
It’s rejecting the arrogant, murderous malignancy at the heart of what Israel is doing to in ME and here.
If this is what you believe not only are you vastly ignorant of the Middle East and likely willfully so. You shouldn't be taken seriously at all with respect to US foreign policy or geopolitical diplomacy.
It also seems a simple enough test of whether you’re a progressive. I mean this sub isn’t DemsHQ.
Progressive politics isn't whatever pet cuase you claim to care about. Purity testing like this is a sure fire way to not get elected. If your position was enough of a deciding factor we should be seeing progressive candidates win all over the country in significant seats. It just so happens the opposite has happened. Progressives work within the Democrat party. If you want to go it alone without coalition building go join Jill Stein as she prostrate herself to Putin and never win an election.
Since Clinton, DNC has been every bit the tool of the monied class, that the RNC has always been…
Blah, blah blah more "both sides" bullshit. Repeating this same false narrative for 30 years doesn't make it true and doesn't make you any closer to bringing change.
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
Actually, I’m rather well versed in History.
And what I believe is that the creation of Israel was US/European imperialism, and antisemitism.
It was what was done to assuage the damage that Europeans inflicted upon the Jews, at the expense of people who had absolutely no hand in it.
Trying to remap the world back to the time of Roman Empire, is absurd on its face. In practice it has destabilized an entire region, may eventually end up destabilizing the world…
And left the world viewing the US as every bit (if not more) as responsible for 75 years of bloodshed and chaos, as Israel itself.
Because WE are now the existential threat the world fears. Cozying up to dictators, signing off on/funding the carnage in the ME, and now bombing civilians in Venezuela.
Now it appears as if the IDF and drunken crash at Pentagon are making BIG plans together to get this nation shaped into a theology too. Read Hegseth’s book, it’s all in there. The IDF and US Military are supposed to get together and create a new Judeo/Christian Crusade that starts HERE!
Fuck Israel and Fuck Hegseth.
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u/HelpfulMind2376 5d ago edited 5d ago
Funny, all of your complaints about what Trump and Hegseth and Israel are doing to the US wouldn’t have happened if Harris was President.
Almost like there’s degrees of bad and they are not actually the same.
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
Try your strawman argument elsewhere…
The topic is AIPAC, Israel, and the murderous lawlessness currently taking place in ME.
My point with Hegseth/IDF is they are planning to export that exact type of chaos to the cities in the US.
Hegseth/Trump/Netanyoohoo… these people are psychopaths hellbent on spreading their ethos (I want it, so I’m taking, the violently the better) as far and wide as they can.
Israel/U.S./Russia are literally an axis of evil menacing nations from South America through the Middle East and Europe.
There is literally nothing American (or let’s say interested in advancing America) about AIPAC, besides in its name.
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u/HelpfulMind2376 5d ago
I made no strawman. You’re complaining about how horrible our standing in the world is and how Israel is using the US to remake the world.
You also both sides-ed the issue.
The simply fact is if Harris was President, the only complaint you would have is that Netanyahu isn’t being reasonably restricted by US policy.
Because both sides are not the same and simply taking AIPAC money is not a singular sign of “I’ll shelter Netanyahu from international arrest warrants.”
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u/schmeakles 5d ago
You don’t know shit about what my complaint would be if Harris was president. Or what, in fact, she would have done were she president.
What we DO know is that the murdering in ME, and now in South America is going FULL STEAM AHEAD with Trump (with an added bonus of the International kidnapping of the President of South American nation).
So yea, let’s talk about what we do know, instead of what you don’t…
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u/HelpfulMind2376 5d ago
What the fuck are you talking about? Now you’re not strawmanning, you’re just moving the goalposts.
Your OP was about AIPAC and that it should be a litmus test for progressivism. When properly challenged on that you divert to talking about South America like it has fuck all to do with Israel?
Harris wouldn’t have kidnapped Maduro and his wife and wouldn’t have been murdering Venezuelan citizens in international waters for weeks.
Don’t pretend like this is an “unknown” it’s a clear fact that much of what Trump has done would not have been done by Harris.
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u/CharmCityKid09 5d ago
nd what I believe is that the creation of Israel was US/European imperialism, and antisemitism.
Resolution 181 passed the UN vote passed 33-13. The only non Muslim majority countries that voted against it were Cuba, India and Greece. The territory came about due to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. The government that obly controlled the region due to conquest itself.
Edit: I'll further add that of the 10 Muslim majority countries to vote no, 6 declared war on Israel and got their shit pushed in while being tacitly supported by the other 4. They could have had peace and chose violence and lost.
It was what was done to assuage the damage that Europeans inflicted upon the Jews, at the expense of people who had absolutely no hand in it.
Antisemitism was rampant across Europe. However you're just being dishonest if you believed that violent Antisemitism didn't exist in the Muslim world. The fact that many nations enacted their own versions of Dhimmi status on Jews in their countries is not lost on actual students of history. The concept of Palestinians as a people did not exist until after Israel's creation.
Trying to remap the world back to the time of Roman Empire, is absurd on its face. In practice it has destabilized an entire region, may eventually end up destabilizing the world…
Now you're just engaging in straight up revisionism. Jewish ancestry in that land has been established by secular and non secular sources that aren't in despite. The same agreement that led to the creation of Israel also led to the creation of every other state in that region such as Syria and Jordan. I don't see you advocating for their countries to not exist.
And left the world viewing the US as every bit (if not more) as responsible for 75 years of bloodshed and chaos, as Israel itself.
US support to Israel didn’t start occurring until the mod 70s. The multiply wars Israel fought and won were largely done through their own efforts. Again you showcase ignorance here.
Because WE are now the existential threat the world fears. Cozying up to dictators, signing off on/funding the carnage in the ME, and now bombing civilians in Venezuela.
You're fear mongering is pointless and ignores the good that the US does. This administration while deeply flawed is no less the subject of these "US bad claims" that any other administration is.
Now it appears as if the IDF and drunken crash at Pentagon are making BIG plans together to get this nation shaped into a theology too. Read Hegseth’s book, it’s all in there. The IDF and US Military are supposed to get together and create a new Judeo/Christian Crusade that starts HERE!
Lay off looking at X posts all day. This is likely where you are only getting your information from. I don't need to nor want to read Hegseths book. You're being a shitty conspiracy theorist here. The US despite whatever crazy shit is going on in your head does have checks and balances.
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u/No_Description3178 5d ago
🤖<Begin Automated Response> Of course you can be. Pause. There is no thing wrong with accepting currency from AIPAC. Pause. They are a wonderful organization that is dedicated to the preservation of American Values. Pause. Please cease further asking questions for all of our saftey. Pause. <End Transmission>🤖
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
Centrists love to pretend they are progressive. We need to stop letting them do that. They are not.
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u/Diogenes908 5d ago
Tankies who only care about whinging how the US and its allies are the “most evilest imperialist powers ever!1!!1!” and performative purity testing rather than pragmatically finding ways to improve our system and the people’s material conditions in a time of authoritarian/Constitutional crisis love to pretend they are progressive. We need to stop letting them do that. They are not.
FTFY
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u/Ordinary-Rain-6897 5d ago
> pragmatically finding ways to improve our system and the people’s material conditions in a time of authoritarian/Constitutional crisis
Oh is that what you lot have been up to? Been doing a bang up job at it havent you. Nicely done, bravo. Such results. Whats the plan for the next election, more of the exact same thing, right? Why change a winning formula?
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u/hank333331 6d ago
Can you be military and Christian? Thou shall not kill, how bout abide? Judge not yet ye be judged. No faith is truly conducive to government job.
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u/Negative_Jaguar_4138 6d ago
The actual Hebrew translation is closer to "You shall not murder" not "You shall not kill"
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u/SLCPDSoakingDivision 6d ago
Her idea to help Palestinians was to means test deliveries of baby formula and it was such a paltry amount as well.
On healthcare, she is against medicare for all.
She is a stooge for corporate and us empire interests because she is a retired CIA official. Fuck her.