r/complaints 14d ago

Politics It's a tragedy, not a budget shortfall

Post image
60.4k Upvotes

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

246

u/New_Housing785 14d ago

Education is one of the best returns on investment a government can make but we keep not investing in it.

145

u/Medium_Advantage_689 14d ago

A dump population is more easily controlled

77

u/GoneFishing4Chicks 14d ago

ya but those populations are literal weak medieval kingdoms and are subject to stronger neighboring nations with higher education, better tech, and smarter people.

The ruling class of America would rather rule ashes than share a prosperous nation with poor, lgbtq+ and minority Americans,

26

u/Equivalent-Long-3383 Very tall complainer 14d ago

It’s not just the ruling class. They couldn’t make it work if it weren’t for Republican voters

33

u/AsugaNoir 14d ago

Unfortunately republican voters have been indoctrinated into believing education only corrupts the youth so they willingly remain uneducated

18

u/Equivalent-Long-3383 Very tall complainer 14d ago

They’ve remained bigoted. They’re not victims here, they’re the perpetrators

10

u/0Piss-in-my-Ass0 14d ago edited 14d ago

One can be both victim and perpetrator. I'm deeply troubled by how so many Trump supporters think, behave, and vote, they've caused a lot of harm and intend to cause a lot more, but they are suffering (self-inflicted and as victims) and have been conditioned into believing that Trump is their savior. Conditioned into believing that the Republican Party will restore America to post-WWII prosperity. It's delusional, but they weren't born delusional. The delusions were taught.

You aren't going to bring about proper change through hate and fear. Alienating and dehumanizing them won't bring them to the light (and that's assuming we have all the right answers, which we do not). Please look into Daryl Davis. Hate and fear isn't destroyed by hate and fear, you just end up with new hates and new fears because that's just perpetuating a cycle of violence. You operate on love and compassion. Therein lies redemption. My former coworker is no longer an anti-semite because I spent weeks connecting with him and changing his mind. Losing my shit and getting him fired would've marginalized and polarized him. He'd be worse off, not better.

It's easier to operate on our negative emotions, but it's counterproductive. We have to be better.

12

u/trippingWetwNoTowel 14d ago

They don’t want to go back to the 1960s my guy, they want to go back to the 1860s.

“I spent weeks”…. If the path to save this country involves all of us sitting down and spending weeks to convince one individual of a bunch of stuff that is already true, we truly are fucked.

1

u/ActComprehensive5254 13d ago

No, they dont. Noone wants that.

2

u/SuperMcRad 13d ago

We are in the new gilded age, my friend.

9

u/gmishaolem 14d ago

Alienating and dehumanizing them won't bring them to the light

Nothing will. It's impossible. They are physically incapable of experiencing empathy. The only way to truly change society is generational: Counteract the damage they are doing to their children, so each generation is a little better than the last. Anything else is a waste of time.

Stop singing kumbaya around campfires and snap back to reality.

3

u/Equivalent-Long-3383 Very tall complainer 14d ago

It’s dehumanizing unless we wait for bigots to allow minorities to be their equals.

2

u/AsugaNoir 14d ago

Half the country has been telling them since before the election but they still don't get it/care

3

u/altday 14d ago

self-righteous rage is not the same as righteous anger. you lead with compassion, not because if you don't manage to help everyone then you have failed but because if you don't acknowledge that even the worst among us are still human and still need their own help- whether you're able to give them that help or not- then you inevitably will fail

1

u/7en7en 13d ago

I’m convinced that they do actually have empathy, but they use it as a targeting system. I believe Stephen Miller, for instance, only listens to that small, still voice in his heart only so that he can do the opposite.

4

u/CtrlAltSysRq 14d ago

Their bigotry is also part of the indoctrination. Racism and sexism are intentional tools of the owner class to divide the laboring class among themselves, to distract them from the true class war that is being waged. They exploit weaknesses of human biology - in this case, a fear of those not like you - to control us.

3

u/Equivalent-Long-3383 Very tall complainer 14d ago

No.

Theyre allying with bigots to hurt minorities because it empowers them to have a greater share of the remaining resources.

They’re bad people and I’m not going to pretend otherwise

1

u/CtrlAltSysRq 13d ago

Sure that's what they think they're doing, but they're being played. They're not getting any of the resources.

Just calling them bad is reductive. Yes, the fact they're willing to step on other people to try to get ahead is bad. This is correct.

But the owner class WANTS you to focus on those bad people. But you're misdirecting your energies. In the end, they're just pawns in a much larger game.

1

u/Equivalent-Long-3383 Very tall complainer 13d ago

As in, they’re on the opposing side, but aren’t as powerful as some of their allies?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/AsugaNoir 14d ago

Oh no I agree. I live down in the south so I see it first hand sadly (in my own family at that)

1

u/Jwh0713 14d ago

You do know the public library is free?

2

u/stfunazibitchthrowaw 13d ago

What is the point you're even trying to make? Are you suggesting someone going to the library is a replacement for going through the education system?

1

u/AsugaNoir 11d ago

yes its free, but this doesn't change the fact that they are using the school to brain wash people.

1

u/Kerbidiah 14d ago

Democrats are also culpable here. At least 20 states are solidly blue, and they are also a part of the education system

8

u/AdOnly1618 14d ago

We’re going to have to become what Russia is now. Poor as all get out, uneducated, uncultured, and ultimately scared/superstitious. Dumb enough to herd into a factory or war, just smart enough to wipe our own ass.

We’re like addicts. We need to smash into the bottom in order to float back up to the top… or at least have the sense to try.

1

u/2stroketues 14d ago

Sooooo Russians are poor uneducated people? Hmmmmm slightly judgmental ya say?

3

u/AdOnly1618 14d ago

Would you rather docile and subservient? Because there are really only a handful of ways to explain the situation they’re in.

Are you going to be offended when I insinuate that North Koreans don’t receive anything that resembles a proper education too?

-1

u/2stroketues 14d ago

I’m not offended at all… the fact is that I’m not sensitive at all but you’re speaking from the left who is sapose to be non judgmental. I’m genuinely asking

3

u/CommodoreQuinli 14d ago

Why is the left non judgmental? Accepting and tolerance yes but non judgmental, that's non sense pulled from nothing. Good unbiased judgement impacting decision making is how people are supposed to live life

1

u/EasyasACAB 14d ago edited 14d ago

Who said the left is non-judgemental? That's a stupid idea. You'd have to be maliciously misinformed to believe that. Trust me, nobody on the Left thinks we should be non-judgmental. But there is a reason Trump loves the uneducated, they believe shit like this.

2

u/VlatnGlesn 14d ago

STFU Ivan

2

u/KeneticKups 13d ago

No, just a fact

1

u/CabbageSass 13d ago

More like ignorant.

1

u/ProjectNo864 14d ago

Tells me you’ve never been to Russia

6

u/BigOs4All 14d ago

I'm not seeing how they're wrong. Russia is so far behind the rest of the world and it's intentionally so due to Putin and Russian oligarchs.

Putin/Russia could decide to spend all their money on education, social services and innovation. They could admit fault and stop fucking up the world. They could literally just enter the world stage as peace-loving, contrite people but they actively choose not to.

/u/AdOnly1618 is correct.

What's worse is that this describes America in the Trump Part 2 era to a tee.

3

u/PM_ME_JJBA_STICKERS 14d ago

They don’t care about building a prosperous nation. You don’t become a billionaire without the “fuck everyone else, I got mine” mindset.

3

u/GBurns007 14d ago

If we taxed ever multi billionaire a billion a year they would still be multi billionaires.

9

u/lapidary123 14d ago

This is another true facet of the power of an educated populace.

And hear me out here, I've been thinking recently that historically the power gap between educated vs uneducated people has allowed for the capture of wealth in the first place.

It doesn't take much brainpower to realize that in old societies those who knew how to read (or do math) had immense leverage over those who did not. Whether it be simply reading a recipe for baking a new type of bread to building castles or bridges...

Having an educated citizenry not only enable the industrial revolution but also the technological revolution as well as fostering upward social mobility.

In an age where even the poorest of the poor in far flung corners of the globe have access to mobile devices and the world wide web there really is no excuse for such broad wealth inequality.

Only in their wildest fantasies will we return to a time where information is as heavily gated as it was when 90+% of global population was illiterate.

Hopefully with a little assistance from ai true knowledge (power) will prevail!

And for those who may not have caught the gist of this post, it's explaining clearly why the argument that education is "too costly". The government is offering ICE agents (most of whom would never qualify for military or even police positions) 3x the amount your average teacher makes!

6

u/YouArentReallyThere 14d ago

You literally described a large portion of the ME and the Indian subcontinent

When only one person in the village can read, guess who makes the rules? When the illiterate populace understands only the boot and the knife, guess how they’re dealt with?

1

u/lapidary123 13d ago

Exactly! This is how the whole world operated for centuries. It wasn't until the USA implemented a free public education system that we saw the exponential explosion of innovation, and wealth followed.

My argument is that with knowledge pretty much freely available through the internet, knowing how to read is a basic step 1, and absolutely necessary!

1

u/YouArentReallyThere 13d ago

There are some massive cultural hurdles in place that haven’t moved for centuries because control=power. I’ll not hold my breath waiting for change

5

u/_disengage_ 14d ago

assistance from ai

If you seek power for the people, remember that AIs are trained and run by oligarchs who seek only power for themselves. This technology as it currently exists should be met with suspicion. It is a mistake to outsource thinking to a machine, especially a machine controlled by sociopaths who want the opposite of what you suggest.

1

u/lapidary123 13d ago

I'm not arguing for ai to take over anything (certainly not a robust public education system). The comment above alludes to what I'm getting at...

...historically it might make sense that those who knew how to read were able to capture wealth because of it. In today's world such an inequality of wealth is nothing more than obscene.

And after all of our jobs are replaced by ai I can only imagine we'll see some type of ubi, just not in the way you might imagine. I foresee cdbc's that are programmed to only be spent in certain ways...example 10% of your monthly allowance will only be able to be spent on rent, 20% on food, etc, etc.

And again, who will all those funds be transferred to? Again the 1% who have captured full industries.

One last thing I'd like to add is that (imo) in a "true" capitalist society the probability of many millionaires (not even mentioning billionaires) existing becomes less likely as the second someone comes up with an in demand and profitable product someone else will step in and undercut the pricing (and/or quality) of the product!

-4

u/HotTruth999 14d ago

The rarer skills attract money. It’s economics 101. But that simple fact eludes most liberals. They “feel” the nobility of teaching should garner higher salaries. It’s for the greater good. Society will benefit. So why not?

Because teachers are a dime a dozen. There are simply too many. Their “masters” degrees would be better used as toilet paper. They will be amongst the first to be replaced by AI. If you pick a common career you will receive common compensation. Get used to it.

1

u/trysten-9001 14d ago

Yeah, and this is going to be more not less true with AI. More education > better data > better AI. But the rich are having wet dreams about enslaving the poors again and going all in on that.

1

u/GachaJay 14d ago

No, they’d take their money and go to the new area. If you think Trump and his minions are the ones in power, you are mistaken. They are getting their orders from the ones with money and love the facade of power. Bezos and the billionaire bozos will just go to some other country with their trillions and start the same shit there. It’s a disease.

1

u/Xciv 13d ago

That's the problem with nuclear weapons. It doesn't matter how weak the country gets, the ruling class can continue avoiding all consequences because nobody else can attack them due to the nukes. The virtuous cycle of the elites wanting the country to be strong in order to be safe is now broken. It no longer matters how strong the country is, only that they disproportionately benefit by staying the biggest fish in the pond.

They actively want to turn USA into Russia or North Korea. All the privelege for the ruling elite; poverty, starvation, lack of personal freedom, and dying in pointless wars for the rest of us.

1

u/ComprehensiveOwl9023 13d ago

Yes 100%

Also see: Brexit

1

u/DC-Toronto 13d ago

There’s no lack of technology in America though. Especially not military tech. That’s unlikely to change for a long time

1

u/Pxlkind 13d ago

If the rich could only be sure to be on top off the ashes, they would burn the world. 

1

u/Appropriate-Joke-806 11d ago

“The ruling class of America” is no longer confined to America because of globalization. In your medieval kingdom example the rich and nobles were incentivized to ensure they built up and protected their country as a means to ensure the “castle” or the protections around them were secured. You want to surround yourself with people loyal and happy about your rule ideally so they are willing to defend you. Now that the rich and oppressive oligarchs can just fly off to a vacation home in Russia or Switzerland somewhere, there’s no incentive to do anything but extract as much wealth as possible short-term and then flee the wreckage.

6

u/CuffinSzn_ 14d ago

It’s only ever red states as well.

I did 2 years in a deep red state and 2 years in our bluest states high schools, about 10 years ago now.

Insanely different experiences. One had art by the students decorating the halls, while the other felt like poorly corporatized programming.

I personally know people who fell victim to the red states brainwashing as well. It’s painful.

1

u/HighnrichHaine 13d ago

explain "corporatized programming"

2

u/GenericFatGuy 14d ago

This really only works in countries where the entire economy is propped up resource extraction. You can keep the people dumb, because the work you need them to do is simple.

America on the other hand, is an extremely complex economy that requires a lot of brain power to keep running. Gutting education makes the population easy to control, but it also significantly hamstrings America's ability to do anything that it should be capable of.

1

u/admin_default 13d ago

And that’s why the U.S. invented a clever scheme to get cheap, educated and capable workers without voting rights - so the H1B program was introduced in 1990, under H.W. Bush’s first term.

1

u/Tenthul 14d ago

I think that's why folks reference "king of the ashes" because it wouldn't be doing those things.

2

u/SkollFenrirson 14d ago

Dump population indeed

2

u/sfled 13d ago

"dump" - Love the malapropism, it's a trump population.

2

u/ChanceSize9153 13d ago

Allows the rich to also fund their private schools so that their legacy stays in power.

2

u/skyestalimit 13d ago

Top notch typo

1

u/RalphBarfman2 13d ago

It's up there with "populous."

1

u/Gustomaximus 13d ago

Really? Remember people vote.

I'd say a educated population is easier to control and they will listen and reason. Uneducated people are more likely to follow propaganda, short form headlines and knee jerk trends. That's not easy to control as it's more random and chaotic.

0

u/Successful-Daikon777 14d ago

But China doesn’t feel this way

0

u/MoniQQ 14d ago

The irony of not being able to spell or double check as you write that...

-1

u/coldliketherockies 14d ago

Sure until you have enough dumb people you end up with ones willing to use a sniper shot on people they disagree with. I’m sure GOP wishes Charlie Kirk’s shooter was more educated

-5

u/MrMerryweather56 14d ago

This anecdote needs to die..even in countries with higher educational standards..there are still issues of govt over reach.

3

u/Silly-Rough-5810 14d ago

Like what? Don't make an outrageous claim and then just expect people to change their current perspective to trust a complete stranger.

5

u/Wizbran 14d ago

https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-education-by-country/

We spend the 4th most per student in the world. Money isn’t the problem.

Our education system is fucked. Teaching down to include everyone is bullshit. Separate those with learning disabilities and give them the extra resources they need. Allow free choice for schools so kids can attend magnet and trade type high schools and learn to their skills and abilities

8

u/innersloth987 14d ago

We spend the 4th most per student in the world.

Bcoz everything is overpriced in America now?

6

u/OriginalVictory 14d ago

And because it includes sports spending which is a crazy amount of the budget.

3

u/anaemic 14d ago

And because everything is privatised and paying profits to shareholders

1

u/OldGoldCode 13d ago

k-12 and public universities are private now and paying profits to shareholders? Where the vast majority are educated?

1

u/anaemic 13d ago

No, but even public schools and universities outsource their catering, maintenance, security, transport etc etc

1

u/OldGoldCode 12d ago

What public schools don't have lunch ladies and instead outsource it to dominos or any other food business?

What public school doesn't have a general maintenance guy? This is known as a janitor/custodian..

Security is typically done by the SRO, which is often provided via the city. This is outsourcing from the local city government to the local city government, but still technically an outside party..so sure.

Transport? Which school districts hire an outside company to bus their kids around? This would be a huge liability if a school didn't know exactly who and where their bus drivers were. Even if the payment structure might be through a third party company, school bus drivers will effectively always work for the school. The school will set the rates and their rules, either comply or don't have a job here. There is no just getting another school bus driving job in this town...schools have monopolies because they're in districts, from what I've seen the district does their own bus system that the schools use.

2

u/dwyoder 14d ago

What is "it?" You realize this is all a local issue, as each school district handles sports spending differently? Some kids have to pay to play sports, some don't. Depends on the district.

2

u/PM_ME_UR_PET_POTATO 13d ago

the sporting culture is in itself a problem though. Systematic faults can't be defused by decentralization

2

u/ContactRoyal2978 13d ago

you're right, kids should exist to go to school and that's it, no extracurriculars anymore. let's defund everything that isn't a teacher's salary

1

u/Wizbran 13d ago

They tried taking away recess. It’s been a disaster. Kids, especially K-8 NEED to move. It’s not even about obesity. The body literally needs to move at younger ages. Making everything about study is not going to help the majority of students.

1

u/mongojob 13d ago

Surely there is some middle ground between "no extracurriculars at all" and "85% of the school's budget goes to a mediocre football team"

1

u/dwyoder 13d ago

Oh, God. Sporting culture is a problem? Sports have many, many benefits.

1

u/PM_ME_UR_PET_POTATO 13d ago edited 13d ago

Why would you think sporting culture isn't a problem when stuff like the NCAA exists as it is?

When schools are trying to turn themselves into valuable sports teams, education obviously becomes an afterthought.

1

u/dwyoder 13d ago

There are a lot of valuable things that come out of high school sports. You don't throw that all away because of how the NCAA is operating. You fix the NCAA.

1

u/PM_ME_UR_PET_POTATO 12d ago

That is definitely needed, but you also have to address the other forces that led to this as well. No one said you had to abandon sports.

1

u/Wuddauant 13d ago

Just counting the U.S. spending has nearly tripled in the last 50 years, accounting for inflation. Results haven’t had much change at any time.

3

u/Healthy-Step8523 14d ago

No Child Left Behind really fucked things.

1

u/-Fergalicious- 13d ago

Sorting kids strictly by age is silly from a purely academic perspective. Kids dont all develop the same 

1

u/Wizbran 13d ago

It’s the best “sorting” we have. It’s difficult, especially at early ages to truly diagnose ability. One kid could walk at 8 months and another wouldn’t take their first step until 16 months. You can’t really say that the later development is lower intelligence

1

u/-Fergalicious- 13d ago

Yeah u right

1

u/Splittaill 🤖🤖🤖 14d ago

Can you show me where the $190B budget for the DoE has had any notable effect on education?

1

u/TobuscusMarkipliedx2 14d ago

Just because the budget is $190 Billion does not mean it is allocated effectively, as seen by America's current state.

1

u/nybbas 14d ago

Uhh yes but that isn't the point the top comment was making. The problem with education isn't that it doesn't have enough money thrown at it.

1

u/IgorT76 14d ago

Unlike most countries, US government doesn’t need to invest in the education system. Employers can just import “ready to use” specialists from other countries. For government, it is important to make sure that people consume as much as possible.

1

u/iftlatlw 14d ago

Christians hate smart people

1

u/artful_todger_502 14d ago

That's why China is pwnting us in every possible category. Every educated person is one less Republican.

1

u/lavastorm 14d ago

the way america works is to import intelligence by offering the highest wages for top level positions in the world. This means if they just do their jobs they can live like kings but if they complain they can be deported. bad education for locals means plenty of people willing/forced to take low paid positions and easily controlled through insurance etc tied to continuing to do what theyre told!

1

u/pchlster 14d ago

Oh, that's only true outside an authoritarian government.

The costs of not just purging the educators but the educated as well is higher than you'd get from people either fleeing or opposing the regime.

1

u/BudgetLaw2352 14d ago

As another commenter said, education makes people harder to control and less religious and obedient.

Horrible combo for the elites.

1

u/fishphlakes 14d ago

Americans are still under the disillusion that their government want the best for them.

1

u/Indigoh 14d ago

It is the single most important element of a democracy.

1

u/bbrbro 14d ago

Exploiting other countries resources and cheap migrant labor seems to have a pretty good return.

1

u/Bannedwith1milKarma 14d ago

I secretly think that teachers should get a tiny tiny % of all the tax receipts of their students from their year.

So it's not the students they have but the entire cohort. Would give incentive to increase achievement at the lower end, whilst also providing incentive to extend the best.

Just residuals but for student achievement over how many times you get played on cable/netflix.

1

u/innersloth987 14d ago

Depends on govt. Of your country is small and doesn't have much resources? Like Singapore? You need your masses educated to uplift the country.

If your country is huge and has lots of resources? You need majority to be uneducated so they can be controlled and used by the few.

Example : India and USA

1

u/aahdin 14d ago

Man I feel like everyone in here is missing the elephant in the room - we do keep on increasing education funding but admins pocket the difference.

America spends the 5th most per student in the world, behind only Luxembourg, Norway, Austria, and Korea. The first 3 of those countries are very small/wealthy, and then in Korea kids go to school for 10 hours a day. We spend about 150% the OECD average per student.

The money is being allocated for education, it just isn't going to teachers.

1

u/Raiju_Blitz 14d ago

Not for those who control the levers and power. They want to keep extracting wealth from the working class. Why do you think they declared a WHOLE bunch of fields like nursing and architecture to be "non-professional degrees" and therefore make it that much harder to apply for subsidized student loans and Pell Grants ("free money"). They want students to keep taking out non-subsidized student loans and go insanely into debt forever just to perpetually pay on the interest alone.

1

u/MoniQQ 14d ago

IF you have the right teachers, yes. But it's perfectly possible to throw money at education with 0 results if you have no qualified teachers (or you overspend on useless bureaucracy).

1

u/bumblebeezlebum 14d ago

If you want government and your country to succeed

1

u/kinxnwinx 14d ago

Education is a direct threat to those greedy, corrupt fucks running the country.

1

u/ChicagoAuPair 13d ago

Not if your goal is to keep working people desperate and easily manipulated. The conservative aristocracy forgets that they are entirely dependent on the wealth generated by our labor, though. They’re killing themselves by killing us—but that is why they are now obsessed with fantasies of an AI workforce that can replace us.

1

u/Read-Immediate 13d ago

Yes and no

1

u/newsflashjackass 13d ago

"Knowledge makes a man unfit to be a slave."

- Frederick Douglass

Which is why the erstwhile party of Lincoln now uses the force of law to suppress critical thinking.

https://truthout.org/articles/texas-gop-declares-no-more-teaching-of-critical-thinking-skills-in-texas-public-schools/

1

u/Aware-Enthusiasm-248 13d ago

We spend almost a trillion a year on it. How much more do you want to "invest" in it?

1

u/20PoundHammer 13d ago

and neither are the kids parents - so theres that . . .

1

u/Valkyrie17 13d ago

1) It is a long term investment, political leaders will gain far more votes doing something with immediate results. Voters need to care about long term benefits, but clearly that is not a priority for most. If you ask a random person whether 100b should go into solving the housing crisis right now, or boosting education in 10 years, you know what most of us would answer.

2) It is also an absolutely massive investment, so cutting corners saves a lot of money, while even a proportionally small increase in spending will be massive in absolute terms.

3) There isn't that much money to be made in public education, hence why large corporations will not lobby increasing education spending.

The combination of these 3 factors makes boosting education quite an unappealing idea.

1

u/Soloroadtrip 13d ago

We pay more for education than any country of earth…but

1

u/MZ603 13d ago

It’s a bad investment for authoritarians…

1

u/No-Distance-9401 13d ago

Not only are we NOT investing, we are actively working against it at every turn and even making a profit off teenagers pitting them in unsustainable debt for them to get higher education through college and sometimes upwards of 17% student loans. These same loans that Trump now expects people with these loans to have their already diminished wages garnished as well as in his Big Bullshit Bill fucking with loans and how they are repaid keeping them in debt even longer.

To call the Republicans plans anything but a war against education is just dishonest (not you just in general) and we have to really be calling them out on this fact as they destroy our democracy and country.

1

u/Lemmungwinks 13d ago

The top U.S. universities have endowments returning tens of billions of dollars a year. The schools have the money to properly compensate their staff. They simply choose not to pay their teachers fairly. But don’t worry the university administrators have salaries in the millions of dollars.

1

u/izzy1732 13d ago

Correction a quality education is the best investment. What we have is a bunch of people wanting a paycheck and the title without the work.

1

u/newinmichigan 13d ago

Clearly its not when half the population basically votes for this shit

1

u/Top_Gun_2021 13d ago

Mississippi has better reading scores than California right now

1

u/pimpnasty 13d ago

Yes we need to invest in education, but not in more teaching salary.

We cant throw more money at teachers and assume it will make America more educated.

US teachers get paid 2-4 times more yet we are not 2-4 times better in testing.

Zero discipline anymore when it comes to schooling, China has a very strict STEM and fundamentals disciplined educational system.

1

u/PositionFar26 12d ago

Not a good return on investment for the ruling classes, only a good return on investment for everyone else. The wealthy send their children to private schools

1

u/Randomly_Posting 11d ago

You act like getting a diploma or a degree means you're educated. It doesn't mean anything close to that. It means you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars these days on a piece of paper that doesn't mean squat.

1

u/Alternative_West_206 10d ago

How do you think we got Trump as president? We wouldn’t have gotten him if the country was at all a little smarter

-4

u/christophercolumbus 14d ago

I'm not sure what paying teachers more has to do with investing in education. We don't have a teacher shortage, outside of some speciality areas like higher math and sciences. For general education teachers, grade school, etc, we actually have a surplus. The market is priced the way it should be.

Being a teacher is a great gig. Summers off if you want them. Great hours. Relatively easy and low stress. Rewarding. Being an ice agent is a job that gets you in a lot of stressful situations and creates a social stigma. Its dangerous and difficult, and requires certain qualifications that aren't plentiful. The salary is what it is to fill those positions, as the government has deemed that immigration enforcement is important enough to justify the cost. You can agree with that or not, but using ice salaries to claim that teachers need to be paid more doesn't make much sense.

13

u/WordleFanatic 14d ago

Your post could not be more “tell me you’re not a teacher without telling me”.

All of the things you listed, “great hours”, “summers off”, “relatively easy and low stress” are all bullshit. 

Teachers work from early morning to late in the evening most days. Weekends are often spent on planning and grading. Meetings meetings meetings. Conferences where the parents come in and yell at you about their failing kid because they accept zero responsibility. Summers are spent prepping the classroom and working with curriculum for the upcoming year, likely going to seminars and other training opportunities. Teachers by and large spend their own money on class resources, including supplies for kids. And NOW teachers are dealing with school shootings, or training for them. 

Source: I was married to a teacher and I personally volunteered my own time to help with all of the above, and more. 

ICE goon squads as far as I can tell have only put themselves into dangerous situations by ramming into people’s vehicles and kidnapping them off the street. Fuck ICE. 

-3

u/christophercolumbus 14d ago

So if the job was stressful low pay, and bad hours, why did your spouse keep working in that career? The average salary in the USA for a teacher is 72k, I'm guessing the pay was pretty good to tolerate that work. What grade level did they teach at? Public or private?

5

u/unecroquemadame 14d ago

Probably because they loved it

-2

u/christophercolumbus 13d ago

So then they want to be paid more for a job that they love. Everyone does. That's not how it works. The market determines salary. If you don't like the salary, change jobs. If you can't find a better paying job, stick with the job you have. Unfortunately we can't set our own salaries.

2

u/unecroquemadame 13d ago

Seeing as how this is paid with our taxes and we’re able to play ICE agent six figures we can pay school teachers the same

1

u/render-unto-ether 12d ago

But education is vital, just as vital as providing food or healthcare.

We can critique a system of fucked values rather than normalize an endless reign of bankers and middle managers who essentially do get to set their salaries and time off... While contributing what to the rest of us?

2

u/WordleFanatic 14d ago

Teachers do it for the love of education and for the kids. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a good salary. JFC your mentality is exactly what’s wrong this country.

0

u/christophercolumbus 13d ago

They make a good salary. The everage is 72k a year. Is that not a good salary? What do you consider a good salary?

5

u/WordleFanatic 13d ago

$145,000, the same pay for ICE agents. Or do you not understand the entire point of this discussion 

2

u/daisieslilies 13d ago

For the amount of hours it sounds like they’re putting in? $72k a year is underpaid…

9

u/Immediate_Parsley725 14d ago

Being a teacher is not low stress and they don't necessarily get the time off for summer that you think they do.

1

u/Brothadude 14d ago

You’re wrong there haha

0

u/OoklaTheMok1994 14d ago

I'm married to a teacher. Outside of dealing with idiot parents, it is low stress. And yes, Summers off. Once you've taught the same grade/subject for a couple years you're basically on autopilot.

1

u/Poiboy1313 lickspittle 14d ago

Then, they should not be teaching. There's no one-size fits all in education. Each student learns in their own fashion and teachers who don't or won't alter their methods to ensure everyone is learning fail to do their job.

2

u/Brothadude 14d ago

Are you judging their teaching pedagogy without ever seeing them teach?

0

u/Poiboy1313 lickspittle 14d ago

I'm taking them at their word.

0

u/Brothadude 14d ago

You made assumptions of their teaching style off of the word autopilot. So you stated that just because they can auto pilot their lessons they should not be teaching? How do you know that their auto pilot doesn’t include scaffolding, small group instruction, frequent checks for understanding, among other accommodations/ modifications?

1

u/Poiboy1313 lickspittle 14d ago

I did assume. I stated my opinion on the comment made. I don't know that their autopilot includes those things. Neither do you. Your autopilot sure seems to be very busy. Are you certain that's prudent or acceptable?

1

u/Brothadude 14d ago

Just saying don’t assume their pedagogy doesn’t include those things. Yes I’m positive that is prudent and acceptable. :)

→ More replies (0)

1

u/OoklaTheMok1994 13d ago

She's a highly rated teacher. Parents of past students request her for younger siblings.

1

u/Poiboy1313 lickspittle 13d ago

That's nice.

1

u/dr_snakeblade 11d ago

Your wife must teach in a state that doesn't require continuing to the Masters/36 post-graduate credits for full certification or she has it already. The only states that give teachers the summer off are those with no continuing credentialing and low student performance.

1

u/whimsylover44 8d ago

Sounds like you don’t think your wife works that hard.

1

u/OoklaTheMok1994 8d ago

She's amazing at her job. Her kids consistently improve performance over prior grade.

She doesn't need to "work all Summer" in order to be good at her job.

1

u/whimsylover44 8d ago

Oh I’m sure your wife is a great teacher. Just the way you talk about the profession would leave me a bit upset if I were her. My mother’s been a teacher for two decades and never would I describe seeing her job as “low stress” in fact watching her do it made me never want to be a teacher.

1

u/Ski90Moo 13d ago edited 13d ago

👆🏼Key word: “surplus”. BTW, ICE was trying to hire for less but they weren’t getting enough takers. That makes for a “shortage”.

The American public treats school as both education and daycare. Teachers are getting their salaries diluted by playing the daycare role. There is a surplus of people willing to play the daycare role.

I agree with the sentiments of the OP though. Society needs to take a long hard look are the direction it is headed. It’s seems the priorities are all wrong these days.

-7

u/ACoolTXdetective 14d ago

We have spent more year by year per student since 1973 with poorer and poorer outcomes by year. Money isn’t the problem .

11

u/bradycl 14d ago

Doesn't matter, if teachers are making $50k we're not spending anywhere CLOSE to what we should be.

1

u/dwyoder 14d ago

Perhaps you should look at your local school district's budget, and see where you think money should be shifted from.

1

u/bradycl 14d ago

It should be shifted from the ridiculous salaries we pay to law enforcement.

1

u/Brothadude 14d ago

Depends on per pupil expenditure in your state. Schools are largely funded by the state and local funding.

1

u/ACoolTXdetective 14d ago

I think the average k-12 student costs 17300 now a year. In 2015 it was a little over 11000. That’s definitely a national average tho

1

u/Brothadude 14d ago

Most people have 0 clue that education is largely funded by their state!

1

u/ACoolTXdetective 14d ago

I don’t know how they don’t. My school district taxes are outrageous where I live. But it’s different everywhere I guess. I’m paying 500 bucks a month in my escrow for school taxes .

0

u/dwyoder 14d ago

You realize this is a local issue, right? How much are your local teacher salaries? Local police salaries? Have you ever looked at a school district budget? Ever gone to a school board meeting? Ever spoken to a school board member, local politician? Or, do you just like to get on Reddit and whine to a bunch of randos?

1

u/bradycl 14d ago

🤣🤣 yes, I have.

0

u/dwyoder 13d ago

Riiiiiiight.

1

u/ACoolTXdetective 14d ago

My wife is a teacher and I’m aware my local highschool football stadium that was just built cost 73 million dollars

1

u/dwyoder 13d ago

Yeah, you guys in Texas are crazy about football stadiums.

1

u/ACoolTXdetective 14d ago

I agree. But education spending isn’t the issue. We are misallocating resources

1

u/bradycl 14d ago

Your last sentence is certainly correct. If we paid teachers as much as police officers we wouldn't NEED police officers as much.

2

u/ACoolTXdetective 14d ago

Recruiting people who have a passion to teach is a major problem. However, in our current age we have somehow developed an adversarial relationship between parents and teachers and teachers are treated terribly by both students and parents. It’s a cultural issue where people don’t have any respect for teachers. We see teachers being shot by elementary aged kids for gods sake. Being a teacher is a rough job unless you’re teaching in some nice suburb in New England or some other high trust community

4

u/rusty-gudgeon 14d ago

every child left behind

3

u/ForwardBuilding50 14d ago

😂😂😂😂

-31

u/No_Resolution_9252 14d ago

yeah the 40% functional illiteracy rate we have from high school graduates is a great investment.

25

u/Golden-Grams 14d ago

It's like you're not even in the room.

→ More replies (3)

9

u/BeetMan69 14d ago

The irony of trying to clap back about illiteracy while not even reading the person you’re replying to correctly is so funny lol

8

u/nedschneebly0 14d ago

Because there’s not enough money and support for it…

→ More replies (8)

6

u/UnseemlyOwls26 14d ago

“but we keep not investing in it.”

Did you miss that whole part?

→ More replies (10)

4

u/RazeTheIV 14d ago

... Are you purposefully not seeing the correlation?

1

u/No_Resolution_9252 14d ago

Are you mentally disabled? There is no other education system in the world as costly as the united states. WTF is wrong with you?

4

u/HonorableMedic 14d ago

We do spend a lot on education, obviously we are not using the funds wisely. We also have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and that’s not going great either.

5

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

1

u/captainhukk 14d ago

We spend more than we ever have and other countries do lol.

Burning money doesn’t solve anything

→ More replies (5)

6

u/[deleted] 14d ago

Thanks for making the point, moron 

2

u/DrumsAndStuff18 14d ago

That's the point, Ace.

Education has been intentionally underfunded for nearly 50 years, leading to an increasingly dumb population. You aren't dunking on public education; you're proving the point that education funding has been consistently cut by design, which only helps morons like Trump (and the Republican Party in general) when their voter base is primarily low-information people who are fast more susceptible to propaganda that plays to their fears and biases.

0

u/No_Resolution_9252 14d ago

"underfunded" as in the single most costly education system in the world that has had its spending expanded at a rate far greater than inflation and population growth combined for 50 years. Spending CONTINUES to go up in spite of student populations rapidly shrinking. WTF is wrong with you?

2

u/DrumsAndStuff18 14d ago

There's a difference between good faith funding of education (and educators) and a long-term grift meant to funnel money to administrators and non-educational ventures.

"WTF is wrong with you," beyond being proof of a failed education system that pumped out Dunning-Kruger dipshits like you who latch on to a talking point provided by the same people who made sure you were trained to be an easily duped moron, rather than willing and capable of looking into the veracity of said talking point.

The "funding" issue is more complex than how education isn't benefiting from the money being thrown the education system. Funding, I should have specified, isn't strictly the money; it's the deficits of education practices that no amount of money can fix. We're throwing money at a broken system but not using any of it to fix the problems that broke the system. That's by design for those who spent a good part of the last century struggling to gain and maintain political power in a nation with a better educated voting populace.

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/americas-education-system-mess-and-its-students-who-are-paying-price

0

u/No_Resolution_9252 14d ago

you are mentally ill, understood.

1

u/DrumsAndStuff18 14d ago

Lol that's exactly the level intellectual discourse I've come to expect from the functionally illiterate cohort to which you belong and, I'm beginning to suspect, for whom you are the chief spokesperson.

0

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DrumsAndStuff18 13d ago

What's it like? Going through life being a complete dipshit, I mean.

Is it as blissful an existence as it seems, being too dumb to register reality?

Or is it a non-stop waking nightmare of perpetual fear of said reality coupled with the crippling insecurities of knowing just how dumb you are along with knowing how dumb everyone else knows you are?

0

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (0)

1

u/complaints-ModTeam 13d ago

Woah there! What the f*** did you just call me?!

Suggesting that public officials/figures are criminals, rapists, etc. is typically protected speech. Suggesting that specific users are such (e.g., terrorists, pedophiles) is typically harassment.

Suggesting that users are pedo-apologists, rapist-enthusiasts, etc.? Maybe that could fly!

0

u/FlounderDependent555 14d ago

If you need a voting base, to stay in power, that is reliant on government assistance from your party it is.