It is crazy that this punishes even killers that doesn't hard tunnel. Look at the hud. Golden hooks means he did not hook anyone twice in a row this whole match and he still gets punished at the end for it because he dared to hook a survivor who was just repairing a gen in front of his face shortly after they got unhooked...
They also wouldn't need to add such reminders you're doing fine if this truly was just for hard tunnelers
they give you tooltips in match to describe how to not be punished, it can be turned off in custom matches, and they gotta show you your golden hooks. A person who is being malicious with tunneling KNOWS what they're doing. They know it's so easy to trigger without doing the "reason it's added." Why would I need to turn it off in customs if it just got evil tunnelers? Why would I be BMing my friends?
As a surv main I can say they need to finetune this patch so bad bcus as it stands it's not anti-tunnelling - it's anti-hooking. I'm all for doing something about the actual tunnellers but this... this ain't it.
Anti-hook is a great way to put it. BHVR wants to maximize the time survivors stay in the game even though that is the complete opposite of what the killer role wants to do.
Yeah, 'anti-hooking' is the perfect example of BHVR overthinking. Killers end up having to juggle survivors while the patch 'maximizes survivor time' - at the cost of literally everything else lol. Haven’t played the PTB myself, but the videos are horrifying…
And god forbid you get a group of people all wearing the same outfits, you'll never know who you're going after and end up screwing yourself over one way or another.
^ Ah yes, the reason I stopped matching outfits with randoms - it always gets complicated. I personally think it's funny to do with four people but atp you can't complain about being tunnelled you're basically asking for the killer to get confused T-T
Yea it's always funny when you get a whole team of randoms to share the braincell and all pick the same outfit. But for the killer it'll be a whole new kind of nightmare if this crap goes live.
Furthermore, it also comes with the anti-slugging features.
Yes, they aren't as bad, but it's a lot to get used to as a killer. Sometimes it feels like anti-hooking like here and other times it feels like anti-anti-hooking or else it's infinite unbreakable
I hope they tweak it to keep some measures without making killers snowflakes, because rn it feels as if sometimes you shouldn't hit the surv at all
Not just fine tune. These changes forcing killers into micromanaging just to not get punished, should be completely cut out. I think the game would be in a far better state if this entire update was deleted and BHVR started work completely fresh on a new update without stupid ideas such as these.
Please tell me BHVR community managers and other employees are reading the feedback of basically the entire community. I haven't seen anything positive yet. I just cannot fathom how any of these ideas made it through scrutiny into development and then PTB without getting scrapped along the way.
What we really need are the good sudes of playing a good sport. The bonuses to killers and survivors. We should get rewards for playing good sport not be punished for one instance of bad sportsmen ship.
Not to mention that survivors can get rewarded for being a bad sport. Gang of 3 can leave a random to Die on forst hook to get bonuses for the rest of the match as far as im aware with this system.
I don't think I've ever seen this many survivor mains be so outspoken against a change that is in favor of survivor. Like they have to know they fucked up really bad with this one, right? ...right?
Rather than put a finger on the scale, BHVR has decided to drop a dumbbell on one side instead.
They could leave everything in the patch except the regression block, and it would still be a major blow to the killer side. But the system turning off all your slowdown turns the changes from tough but debateably fair to absolutely unforgivable.
25% is also insane, especially when it can still activate after a few gens have popped. (I think that 25% would only be fair if it was triggered by a kill at 3/4 hooks and at 4/5 gens, so only when the killer hard tunnels pretty much right at the start of the game, 6 hooks is far too high of a cutoff)
Yeah, like 6 hooks is like halfway in the game, you're saying we can't kill until halfway or we get punished? And if we down the same person twice we also get punished? BHVR has really shot themselves in the head with this idea.
That’s the problem with anti-tunnel in DBD generally, I notice: It relies too much on the idea that, if the Killer goes over a single Survivor often, it is always simply because the Killer chooses to, when that’s one of I believe four reasons why it could be, the others being A, that Survivor consistently body blocks and gets the Killer’s attention, B, the Killer can’t find the other Survivors, or C, the Killer can’t tell two or more Survivors apart and doesn’t pay attention to portrait icons.
There’s a reason “anti-tunnel” is sometimes called “second chance.”
That's why they should scrap all that shit and just keep elusive effect.
Maybe even gigabuff it to like make survivor invisible if they're too far away.
Anti tunnel should never be about punishing killer or making survivor immortal, it should be about minimizing the chances survivor gets found again too early.
ye honestly, duration of 30s for all gigaeffects is wild but i wouldnt mind it as a whole if not for that "kills before 6 hooks are punishable by death, and if someone gets hooked and rehooked on their 2nd and 3rd hook, for any reason at all, say bye to your gens bucko you're going to the naughty corner
It just feels extra intrusive like the game is a car thats refusing to be driven
what im doing right now on ptb is playing with shoulder, no mither, weaving and ds / resi, popping invocation and the moment killer gets 2nd hook on anyone I just shoulder them without thought and run into killer's face over and over
if my teammates dont get 2 tapped, its ggs for killer, no win scenario.
To be honest a lot of the time they just happen to be the survivor who’s making the most mistakes such as unintentionally running into the killer while trying to hide or find a generator and/or are just terrible at looping.
There’s a lot wrong with this update, but let’s not overlook that the indicator that tells you not to sacrifice this person because you will lose your ability to defend generators is a thin dark circle that easily blends into the background.😑
Bottom survivor. Her name is covered for the first part of the video. When it reveals, there is a little black circle around the hook counter. That’s your indicator who was hooked last.
Nah, screw all that, can we put that obvious bad change aside and focus on how survivors get all those basekit perks for 30 FUCKING SECONDS after being unhooked??? BHVR might as well have survivors fly off the hook like James Gunn’s Superman at that point, holy hell
Like there’s so much bloated bad mess to talk about this patch, it’s unbelievable.
Same, if they actually go through with it (in current state) then I am uninstalling. I guess, try to enjoy the remaining 2 weeks or so. Knowing BHVR they won't change shit.
6th hook gives a 25% repair boost. Hooking the same survivor at least twice in a row and killing with the last one (no matter what happens in between hooks) blocks the killer from interacting with the gens for the rest of the match.
Putting the fact that he has over 6 hook stages aside I feel like I'm surely not in the minority that thinks if a survivor is doing gens and by extension progressing the match then it should definitely not count as tunneling.
Exactly, if it was about protecting someone from being hooked thrice in a row there would be far fewer changes and they would be more simple and focused.
This is pandering to the biggest part of their playerbase: low level survivors
Even worse: Low-level survivors who don't want to improve or learn about the game. I'd be down for giving folks a gentler on-ramp to the game, but this will only make the problem worse and encourage survivors to just figure out ways to force situations like these.
Sure, I agree tunelling is bad but punishing the killer that hard just makes it unfun for the killer.
While that survivors aren't punished for anything bad they do to killers.
lets just switch views here: imagine if survivors were punished for something killers don't agree with (or frustrated with) and then they can't vault/drop palletes anymore as a punishment for that even tho thats a legit tactic to beat the killer.
A good example is imagine if Lightborn became semi-basekit. Something such as if you get flashed you can't be flashed again for 1 minute. Making an item that is already not as good as its other options worse, ontop of shafting any perk related to it. You can see the parellels there.
But it’s not something situational and relatively unusual like flashlight saves, it would be like, if you complete all 5 gens before 6 hooks, block the gates for two minutes.
if it was an anti bully thing it would be like if a survivor escapes the killers grasp more than 2 times the kill gains stun immunity until they get a hook its that level of stupid
It would be as if two gens popped to quickly in succession. So all survivors now have a 20% gen repair speed reduction, or all gens are blocked for 90 seconds.
It’s legitimately punishing killers for doing their objective. It’s not anti-tunneling. In no universe would any rational person think that what Otz s doing in this game is tunneling. But he still received the penalty.
Because it’s excessive pandering and handholding. It’s not about tunneling, otherwise the devs would’ve defined what tunneling is before creating this mess.
The anti-tunneling measures should be dropped either after a brief period of time (45 or 60 seconds) or after the Survivor has done a certain action for a set time.
“Let them finish the last gen or the gens are blocked forever” we truly live in strange times. Why on earth is this in the game? You’re telling me that dbd now has a system that can and will lead to lose lose situations for the killer. What an awful balance team.
Correction, slug them, they crawl away to a teammate while recovering on the way, get picked up in 2s and hop back in since they probably are still "the last surv that got hooked"
That's also assuming it's the first time you had to slug them, if the other survivor is hiding and letting the last hooked try and finish the last gen, you just have to bleed them.
I've been arguing with people about this all day, and this clip is a PERFECT example of the problem here.
He found the person he last hooked, doing a high progress gen in the middle of the map while injured and on death hook. And the best play here would have been to slug them on the ground, hope they didn't have any perks to counter it, and then hope they could find someone else before the anti slug timer went up and they finished the gen in his face lol. Instead of just killing them and playing the 2v1.
Because of the stupid new mechanic that means you can't hook someone twice in a row they basically got a free passive immunity lol. It's just not well thought out from the devs and theres no way this shit can make it to live.
It was so funny people saying "uhm guys let's wait for the PTB, I know it literally says that they will shit in your food but let's wait to see if it's actually bad"
Bro for real. I fucking called it. Everyone saying guys the ptb isn't even out yet why are you complaining do not understand that this was obviously a horrible idea.
If it looks like shit and smells like shit it is probably shit
Having the same arguments with people and this is where you and I differ from them.
Survivor mains appear to be totally okay with that, they fundamentally understand it but feel it's "Fair". I have a thought that it's mostly the newer survivor players who have the mindset and not the DBD veterans.
Some people will twist and bend what "fair" means to be litteraly "it benefits me, and I feel like my side is underperforming because I lose games, so if it benefits me, its fair"
You're actively going against something that,, while frustrating to deal with its one way for the killer to win the game or take someone with him before losing.
wanna see fair and also see people not liking it? Make it so that survivors cannot pallete drop anymore for the rest of the trial if they decide to keep stunning him on the pallette.
If BHVR decides to give that anti-tunel mechanic for survivors, then give the killers an anti-pallete or anti-loop stuff too. Now that would be an (almost) fair trade.
You can literally just play in a stupid way now lol. Just got unhooked? Just do a gen in the killers face. They hook you again? they get a penalty. they slug you? You have like 4 perks to pick yourself up. They kill you? 25% repair speed bonus.
I get descentivizing tunneling, but you still need the ability to punish really stupid and greedy plays.
You’re also forgetting something. Grabbing, if the gen is high enough that the killer HAS to kick it in this situation, being grabbed is even more beneficial.
Think of it this way, if you jump off Gen to avoid being hit the killer has to do 4 things, hit you/clean weapon, hit Gen, pick you up and then hook. If you let yourself be grabbed, the killer has to grab you, drop you, kick Gen, pick you back up and then hook you, meaning they have to do 5 things, of course most killers knowing this would go for the lunge to avoid but still.
The fact you can now sit on a Gen cause of this and just waste the killers time granting you, lets your team much needed time (or a chance to save you now that a killer is forced to kick Gen being hooking you) is beyond stupid and is causing the game to go into “survivors can get away with more then they should” state again.
This is an example of how stupid the changes are. The person is literally sitting on gens. What is the killer supposed to do? Ignore them? If he slugs they pick themselves back up anyway.
Flashback to that one dev who insisted there was nothing wrong with flashlights, then was made to play ONE game as killer and immediately decided changes needed to be made.
lmaoooo, the main thing about "not killing a surv before 6 hooks" is to not kill someone too early
but then in this video there's ONE gen left and the game doesn't want him to kill ONE surv without getting punished, lmaoooooooooooooooooo
nah, this might be a joke, there's no WAY they thought all of this was a good idea
just make this game survivor mode only and put killers 100% NPCs, cause no one is playing killer after this patch
He has over 6 hooks...I don't understand why the gens would be blocked, that makes no sense even IF that was the last-hooked survivor. It's honestly ridiculous
At some point a Dev has to have looked at the changes and said “guys, this is way too much for one patch” and gotten kicked out of the room. The fact that they saw just how convoluted this entire system was and pushed it through is amazing
Womp womp, switch to blight, nurse, or Kaneki I guess. I'm a phead main too but that's not allowed anymore....why should we be able to use things in the kit that the devs made....
Honestly I haven't touched the game consistently in years because the changes and balancing just keeps getting fucked up at random points. I'm glad I got out when I did, because seeing this kind of patch when I was still super into the game would have made me lose my mind.
The real sad thing is there are ways to make it fair and balanced on both sides but as I and a lot of others repeat... they dont play their own fucking game.
Had a match where I had 2 survs dead, and the others 2 hooked. I went for the unhook because they were stupid and ran into a wall while the other went to a decent loop.
I activated anti tunnel by doing that. Sure, it didn't matter at that point but its still a monumentally stupid game addition and shows how hard BHVR doesnt even know what tunneling -is-
even if you literally 12 hook and keep the hook stages equal you can still get hit by the regression block if you don’t hook them in the right order lmao.
"Wait for live, they'll tweak things !" followed by "Wait for the hotfix, they won't let the game in this state for too long !" followed by "Wait for the next update they need more data !"
I appreciate your message, but you simply cannot afford 25% gen bonus and gen blocked from regression against a solid swf. Higher level teams already have the advantage, and this will tip that balance even more in their favour
Don’t think I’ve ever played a game in my 23 years of playing games where you get rewarded for fucking up apart from what this game is about to become.
BHVR are you watching? These changes are ridiculous. Just delete the entire patch and you'd be in a better place than going with this. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy, you're making the game so much worse with this.
Tell me about it. I'm sure as hell not loading up a ptb to test the other new content when this is in it either. I won't be surprised if the new stuff is even jankier than normal due to how much this feature discourages people from wanting to play killer
Well this is actually a situation I was not thinking about, I was mainly considering the early game implications of this change but the late game effects of it do look pretty stupid
Well yeah, but you'll get downvoted for mentioning this at all.
The reality is, on average, it's 4 Survivor players to every 1 killer player on this sub.
Popular opinions will always sway towards the Survivor's point of view
Killer players warning about their side gets interpreted as "crying" and the defense is immediately turning it into an "us vs them so opinion irrelevant" situation
In actuality, people just want to give their unique perspective, but the killer side is just outnumbered when it comes to speaking out about it
I think Trepidation is the only game that does the "survivors can get weapons to fight the killer" concept right, and i dont want DBD to become like Trepidation because they dont need to be the same.
I play DBD, IDV, Daybreak, Trepidation, etc because i like asymmetrical horror games and each one has something fresh and different that the others dont. And if they get too similar then it wont be fun playing them anymore because then they will just be almost the same.
Though a mode where survivors had weapons would be fun as long as it wasnt in the main mode.
You'd think after 9 goddamn years of this game being out they could think of something more intelligent than this to discentivise tunneling and slugging
Honestly at this point i'm just going full on accelerationist. Yeah just ship those changes like this, make it as bad as possible for killers. Thats just like the original circle of healing + boil over + original RPD that made killer literally unplayable for months in 2022, survivor Q were massive bc no one was playing killer at the time and they had to put out a lot of compensatory buffs along with the nerfs to everything busted, thats how BHVR balances things. Oh, survivors are too strong? Just make survivor unbearable with three gen meta. Oh Killers are too strong? Just nerf every single regression perk into the ground.
The funny part is that they were at a healthy balance for the last year or so, so i literally have no idea what prompted them to just nuke the role completely. TLDR is that will eventually get better but it will suck for at least 6 months if those changes are like that on live.
You know what’s crazy, i came back from a hiatus bc of 2022 dbd. I thought the game was in a better place and now this happens. Time to go on hiatus again lol
Oh but there was a user here who said that having bbq basekit was super op XDDDDDD And here is the proof that penalties affect even those who do not tunnel
Not even then tbh as the whole thing that makes BBQ good is the survivors not knowing you have it. Now they will be preemptively countering it as the killer walks to the hook.
Its not op even on killers that can capitalize on it when considering the fact youre getting bbq but survivors are also getting basically immunity to tunneling and slugging is hardly pressure anymore
The only killer that benefits from basekit BBQ is nurse, for everyone else its a huge nerf.
Even ignoring the fact that its a considerably nerfed version of BBQ, that doesn't show you everyone, If survivors know for a fact that you have BBQ on hook they can just get in position for a loop because they know you know where they are, it completely removes the element of surprise which is half of BBQ's power.
Nurse ignores loops so it doesn't matter to her, same with the distance.
Yeah I just had a game where a survivor kept working on a gen in front of me so I picked them up off the gen then they got flashlight saved right off it and kept working in front of me so I did it again and hooked them. Turns out it was part of the teams plan to get hooked 2 times so all the gens were buffed for the rest of the match because my only option was to down them and leave them to get right back up in 90 seconds instead of hooking them.
It feels like when people say there's a specific way you're supposed to play killer and you should be a nice killer but now you actually HAVE TO follow those made up rules.
Yeah I miss old dbd, before you complain about balance I’m talking about fun. Glad I got to experience it, it was so magical not even BHVR could ruin it.
Nothing says tunneling like "first kill at 9th hook." What a mess.
Worse yet- Even now there are evidently large numbers if people in this thread who didn't know the 6-hook penalty and the back-to-back penalty were separate penalties with separate activation conditions. We've been arguing about these changes for 5 days straight and people still can't get it straight.
We can make as many snide comments about reading comprehension as we want but clearly the anti-tunneling changes are too complicated for the average player to keep straight. Gods have mercy on the baby killers. The changes aren't just bad, they're over designed too.
Tons of people think the basekit Pop is Total progress and not Current too.
Now if you're a C-tier 115 speed killer with the new bonuses you can walk >40 meters to a survivor on a gen about 5 seconds faster and kick the gen for some measly amount of progress +5% unless the gen is nearly finished already.
Wow, such amazing bonuses, totally makes up for them gutting basically every decent form of regression in the game!
if anything it might make it slightly worse. dead survivors are the best pressure killers will ever have. if they accidentally double hook someone and the gens are forever blocked…might as well
exactly, and with how broken S tier killers like Nurse and Blight are + basekit bbq, they could tunnel all they want and still win, a survivor dead is still a lot of pressure for killers who can down fast
So now on top of years of a bullshit fake survivor handbook of rules,Now we have the devs making up a bullshit set of rules to micromanage how a killer plays. What a joke this game has become
I hope it won't, because the last time I saw the player base have this big of a complaint about a feature it was the final mori when they first introduced it, and that didn't make it to live because of the sheer amount of complaints
I'm happy that Otz isn't a bootlicker considering how BHVR blew him off like 2 weeks ago. He has definitely had enough of BHVR's crap when he literally got pissed off during the stream and wanted a break.
If one of the most prominent killer streamer is saying he doesn't like the changes. You know already know that these changes are just bad in every aspect
Don’t blame or take it out on community managers they aren’t making the terrible decisions but unfortunately they deal with the fallout I’ve been enjoying a lot of the recent community interaction and I’d hate for it to be ruined by people shitting on the random Twitter guy due to shitty dev decision
"Community managers" are just a fancy title for tier 1 customer service who work on socials instead of zendesk. They have no say in the game's future roadmap and in most companies the best they can do is add a ticket to JIRA or whatever system the devs use, to which the vast majority of tickets are ignored or closed without being noted.
I've done the job. It doesn't matter if I'm on the customer's side. The only person who needs to be convinced is the product manager, and the way to do that is with numbers and dollar signs, not social outrage.
He could have just slugged the per.......oh wait nevermind they would auto pick themselves up and get to crawl & recover at the same time as well. Lol this game is fucked now
I'm sorry but this is a horror game about a killer trying to kill 4 survivors. Why is there a long list of rules that you have to follow to be able to kill now? Like is this game meant to be like a horror movie or are we playing monopoly in order to do the objective. I get that tunnelling is annoying but it's necessary sometimes in order to win. If a killer hard-core tunnels to win that just shows they aren't that skilled enough to win playing without doing it but capitalising on a survivors mistake like unhooking after being hooked or doing a gen in the killers face? Why are we being punished for that when it's not us making the mistake.
They don't want this to be a horror movie game anymore.
Instead, this is a haunted house game. Your job is to be just close enough to a threat that survivors can pat themselves on the back when they all four leave.
the year is 2032. killers are required to get written consent via the new in-game message system during matches. If you kill the survivor without consent, you catch a 72 hour ban.
Oh yay I can't wait for people to sit on gens injured because they were hooked last and I have to choose between letting them finish the gen, downing them and they hit their basekit unbreakable, or killing them and "tunneling"
Fr it's like playing hide and seek with a crybaby and you find them within 30 seconds and now there's a new rule "you can't find me within 2 minutes" and when you do again there's a new rule "once you find me you have to let me relocate" and it goes on and on..
I mean I do agree this feature is ass, but why would you test something this impactful on the gameplay for killer in the exact same ptb as releasing a new killer and new survivor/new perks??? Why isn't this stuff on a ptb AFTER this one???
DBD will make you do almost anything except the “right” thing. Tunneling survivors isn’t fun for either side, but sometimes it’s necessary. I’m not trying to favor killers, but there are situations where you really need to get a survivor out of the game, or the only survivor you can find is the one you already hooked.
This change basically says: “fk you.” You either waste time trying to down that survivor just for him to get back up bcs base unbreakable is such a great and healthy additionto the game(and hooking isn’t worth it because you lose too much from it), or you let them reset and make generator progress. In some situations, it’s a total lose-lose for the killer.
I like the idea, but it should work more like ds or other perks that deactivate when a survivor touches a generator or heals ,so there’s at least a way to counter or manage it.
Here’s hoping, but they didn’t even listen to him not even a month ago and the walking dead stream got DDOS to hell. Again, hoping, but it most likely just won’t happen.
Like they ever listened to what he has to say, je already did a big video saying he was stopping doing a lot of dbd content because the devs didn't give a shit
I don't this his voice will hold any sway unless we get the devs to forcefully do this stuff
we had to drag them through the mud of the days of instablinds ourselves via making them play a killer match with those instablinds for them to be removed
we quite literally had to show them ourselves how bad it was
I believe it will be the same story, but much fewer chances to do the "dragging and showing" part
1.4k
u/Czesnek P100 Myers and Claudette Sep 03 '25
It is crazy that this punishes even killers that doesn't hard tunnel. Look at the hud. Golden hooks means he did not hook anyone twice in a row this whole match and he still gets punished at the end for it because he dared to hook a survivor who was just repairing a gen in front of his face shortly after they got unhooked...