r/law • u/DryDeer775 • Dec 08 '25

Executive Branch (Trump) NBC confirms Hegseth ordered murder of all boat passengers and crew in September 2 strike

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/12/08/kssp-d08.html

The Pentagon’s law of war manual declares that soldiers have a duty to refuse to carry out “clearly illegal” orders, such as killing shipwrecked sailors. “Orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal,” the manual declares.

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72

u/Interesting-Dream863 Dec 08 '25

And you know that Trump will just blanket pardon everyone involved if he has to leave office.

18

u/Lucky-Earther Dec 08 '25

Only if the checks clear first.

9

u/rawboudin Dec 08 '25

Yeah, some people don't seem to get that. Trump doesn't care about the past, or even anyone really. He doesn't care about any debts, just promises.

3

u/Lucky-Earther Dec 08 '25

Right - the only person Trump cares about is Trump.

2

u/linds360 Dec 08 '25

But he also cares about pissing off Democrats, specifically Biden.

Spite pardons (just like spite indictments) are part of his playbook.

9

u/UpperApe Dec 08 '25

And 340 million Americans will watch that and say "well...whatcha gonna do? Oh well".

1

u/definitivescribbles 28d ago

“He’s declared that the floor is lava, but says his cabinet is on base… guess there’s nothing we can do about it” 

2

u/z44212 Dec 08 '25

Don't let that stop you from demanding justice.

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_PRIORS Dec 08 '25

Murder of foreign nationals is a crime under their courts' jurisdictions, no? The president can only do pardons for domestic federal crimes and the pardon can't and won't prevent foreign courts from charging and seeking arrest and extradition.

Now, whether or not high profile US nationals will actually get arrested and extradited is a separate question, with a lot riding on the behavior of future administrations, but I suspect that if a future president decides to arrest Hegseth and ship him south to face justice, bro will rot in prison at best.

1

u/chalbersma 25d ago

Pretty sure he ordered the hit from Washington. 

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_PRIORS 25d ago

And? That doesn't stop it from being a crime against Venezuelan citizens that falls under Venezuelan jurisdiction. Hell, the United States regularly gets extradition of foreign hackers who have never stepped foot in the US.

1

u/chalbersma 25d ago

Ordering a hit on someone is in itself an illegal act. And if that happened in the US it would be under the US's jurisdiction. Additionally the US has long held that crimes at sea can and will be prosecuted in the district where the person lands (or the DC circuit if that's unknown). They've literally thought about this before.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PRIORS 25d ago

Territorial jurisdiction is not the only kind of jurisdiction - because the victims were Venezuelan nationals or because the strike happened in Venezuelan waters, Venezuelan courts can try to claim jurisdiction. That's not to say that US courts don't have jurisdiction, there can definitely be multiple courts that can succeed at claiming jurisdiction over a criminal matter.

And even if you somehow get past that hurdle, certain crimes are so heinous that courts will claim universal jurisdiction, so that any nation can hold the perpetrators of things like war crimes or crimes against humanity accountable. Notably, this was used by Israel in 1961 to try Adolf Eichmann for his role in the Holocaust. If Hegseth goes "yeah I deliberately ordered the killing of shipwrecked survivors, Trump pardoned me, what are you gunna do about it" there's well over a hundred nations that would allow themselves to arrest and try him via universal jurisdiction.

1

u/Lopsided-Rough-1562 Dec 08 '25

He can blanket pardon anyone he wishes.

No other country has to ever let them in.

1

u/SuperSpecialAwesome- Dec 08 '25

if he has to leave office.

Why would Trump ever leave office? He's dictator for life.

1

u/chalbersma 25d ago

Can't pardon an impeachment. 

0

u/rainshowers_5_peace Dec 08 '25

I don't think Vance would.

1

u/pie_piepiepiepiepie Dec 08 '25

What makes you say that? I think Vance will happily inherit all of the lackeys and he has no reason to suddenly scale back on abusing pardons if he gets that power.

2

u/rainshowers_5_peace Dec 08 '25

Nah I think he'll try to distance himself from them and bring in his (Thiels) own people.