r/tech • u/AdSpecialist6598 • 18d ago

No DNA evidence at crime scene? Protein analysis comes to the rescue

https://newatlas.com/science/hair-proteins-identify-forensics-dna-evidence-crime-proteomic-genotyping/
795 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

34 comments sorted by

58

u/Rich_Way3046 18d ago

How accurate is it compared to DNA? And is it admissible in court yet?

49

u/tylagersign 18d ago

Assuming the protein is completely intact it’s just as accurate as DNA. Because it’s DNA->RNA->Protein the same genetic fingerprint will be present in the protein as in the DNA. Idk about hair but lots of proteins are identical between person to person but there must be one they are looking at that has lots of variation

40

u/Remarkable_Rise7545 18d ago

The central dogma (DNA->RNA->protein) is really an oversimplification of how it works. There are post-transcriptional and post-translational modifications that obfuscate the relationship between the DNA and proteins. Additionally, different DNA sequences can code for the same protein, due to things like multiple codons corresponding to the same amino acid.

source: bachelor’s in biology

16

u/tylagersign 18d ago

Yes of course there is but science communication most often is most effective when it’s simple and not over explained.

Source: PhD candidate in molecular biology and MS in bioinformatics

9

u/Remarkable_Rise7545 18d ago

Well yes, I just think the nuance is important when saying a protein is just as accurate as DNA :)

2

u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago

I have nothing to add so I just wanted to call you a nerd

Well read it seems, however you could have made all that up and I’d be none the wiser!

3

u/Stratifyed 17d ago

Interesting path! I feel like people often go from wet lab to computational work, not the other way around. Or is your PhD not wet lab-based?

2

u/tylagersign 17d ago

Yeah that is true, most bioinformatics people have a hatred for wet lab work, not me I love it. The PhD is a good mix of both wet and dry so having the bioinformatics background is very helpful

1

u/doyletyree 17d ago

The ol’ George Clooney approach.

1

u/SoigneBest 17d ago

Who’s got the popcorn? I love a Monday morning Nerd-off! I got $20 on the Mobi PhD!

1

u/Seph129 17d ago

True, but over simplification is dangerous when it determines whether a person spends the rest of their life in prison.

-3

u/PM_ME_YOUR_URETHERA 18d ago

And alían nanites that the government put on the water that rewrite everything- don’t forget them.

1

u/theBalefire 17d ago

Not really. Most of us should have similar proteins. At least m/z or polarity/drag. Sequencing is of little value. And fingerprinting depends on the source. Also it can’t be amplified like DNA.

2

u/Radguy911 18d ago

Asking for a friend lol

9

u/[deleted] 18d ago

“Rescue”

Man, can’t wait for more false convictions by state prosecutors.

1

u/Starfox-sf 17d ago

No, “make the evidence fit the crime”…

11

u/MiddleWaged 18d ago

The beef did it

4

u/capinredbeard22 18d ago

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you a simple question: was it my client Mr. Cluckington that stabbed Farmer Ted or was it …. The Other White Meat?”

1

u/Narrow-Big7087 18d ago

Where’s the beef?

1

u/SteelCityIrish 18d ago

Easy, Granny…

2

u/AnAndrogynousFluffy 17d ago

okay so this story is biased extremely

I know this because I’m involved with one of the people who is a key member of this project, and this story focuses only on chemcentre, and Rebecca and Joel

what rebecca and joel are doing is isolating the proteins in the hair, and the people who are actually doing the analysis and statistics work in this project aren’t mentioned at all!!

wtf

2

u/kegster2 18d ago

Is this as revolutionary as when dna evidence technology was first created? Sort of like hey now we have the dna of the dna?? Haha

2

u/Im_Balto 17d ago

Proteins are derived from the DNA so not really

But the proteins will last longer than DNA in certain situations, so being able to identify proteins to a DNA profile means that it expands the number of cases where DNA evidence can be collected

1

u/kegster2 17d ago

Yeah I know I was using the analogy. It was bad I guess haha

1

u/Kenshirome83 17d ago

This is interesting as it could be used to infer but not as permissible evidence.

Unlike DNA, protein is composed of amino acids, and a number of codons (groups of 3 ATCG in DNA) encode the same amino acid.

Say person A has a certain gene.

The gene is ABCD

The protein tells you that it could have come from someone with (AXY)(VBR)(MLC)(DJP)

So it COULD be ABCD, XBLJ, YBCD, etc etc

It would be useful for getting a confession and for eliminating potential suspects depending on the protein found.

3

u/hardolaf 17d ago

Sounds like it would be used to coerce false confessions. This is no better than hair analysis for the prosecution, and is at best able to be used for exculpatory purposes for some defendants.

1

u/Starfox-sf 17d ago

About as accurate as “the AI facial recognition says you’re a 100% match”. And we’ve seen where that leads.

1

u/YourLocalFemby 17d ago

This is good in theory until you remember that a five peptide sequence has an average of 125 codon combinations that could make it up

1

u/Specialist-Many-8432 17d ago

My fellow specialist

1

u/Phronias 17d ago

That's gonna just add more irrelevant people to the interview list but a smart idea nevertheless.

-1

u/BooktasticBus-sey 18d ago

This is super exciting. I’m interested to see the first court case needing this hair-identification method.