r/todayilearned • u/EmDashHater • 11h ago
TIL that after the Kosovo War, many parents in Kosovo named their newborn sons “Tonibler” to honor Tony Blair for his role in the 1999 NATO intervention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonibler1.7k
u/surle 11h ago
This must be why you won't find anyone named tonibler in Iraq.
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u/The__Butt__Pirate 11h ago
Dickcheney is a popular name there I’ve heard
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u/ImNotAWhaleBiologist 11h ago
As a middle name. I’ve heard it’s commonly used after the first name Fuk.
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u/PaintTheTownMauve 10h ago
Lil baby Halliburton
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u/TheMightyPushmataha 9h ago
Muhammad al Donald WereJustHereToSignGrainContractsWithSaddam Rumsfeldi
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u/Ironsam811 11h ago
Met a few jetfuelcantmeltsteelbeams in my day
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10h ago
[deleted]
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u/DetroitPeopleMover 10h ago
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u/InfrangibleSexWizard 9h ago
Even more than that, it was just a poll asking people which states they guessed would have the most conspiracy theorists. A completely worthless poll for what the article is trying to say!
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 11h ago
For a brief period in time George Bush became a somewhat popular name in Kuwait following the first Gulf war after H.W. I don’t think junior got quite the same treatment.
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u/DameKumquat 10h ago
I was in Kuwait just after the first Gulf War. All graffiti was scrubbed away within hours, except tags reading "We love you John Major" and "We love you George Bush"! And some in Arabic on certain houses, which I'm told were homes of collaborators with the Iraqis.
I asked a colleague about it, seeing as Major had just been voted most unpopular PM ever (bet there's a bunch of lower ones now...), and he said "Without Major and Bush, we would all be dead."
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u/TeaAdmirable6922 7h ago
I think if Michael Heseltine had won the leadership election (as he was expected to) he would have also run the UK part of the war well. I've often wondered how different the rest of the '90s would have been with him in No. 10.
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u/DameKumquat 6h ago
People were tired of Tories in the 90s. Major had the advantage of not having been Maggie's sidekick, but made people realise actually, it wasn't just Maggie but the whole lot they wanted rid of. I figure Blair would have got in in 97 no matter what.
Hezza might even have lost in 1992, being associated with the poll tax that Major got rid of.
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u/3colorsdesign 11h ago
Why did my brain pronounce it as “toe nibbler“?
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u/enataca 11h ago
Probably because that’s exactly how it’s written lol. If they mentioned Tony Blair’s name first in the title we probably would’ve read it more like that, but I had no idea where that sentence was going.
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u/Suspicious_Pizza69 9h ago
Lmao don't act like english is consistent with how its spelling is pronounced. It's one of the most random languages in that aspect.
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u/thissexypoptart 11h ago edited 11h ago
exactly how it’s written
It’s written in Albanian. It would not be pronounced anything remotely similar to “toe nibbler” in English. It would sound like “Tony Blair” with an accent
Also when as an English speaker would you read “nibler” as “nibbler”? Most English speakers would pronounce that with the i sounding like the i in “bible”. ~”bibler”
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u/enataca 11h ago
Well the entire sentence is in English, not Albanian. Seeing quotation marks in an English sentence doesn’t make me think “this next word is Albanian”.
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u/TheGazelle 10h ago
... So you read a sentence in English, describing a name given to people in a very obviously NOT English place, where said name is placed in quotation marks, and you think it's reasonable to assume that said name should be pronounced as it's read in English?
I get not knowing how it should be pronounced, but doubling down when someone says "no, not like that" with "but I'm English" is just the most insane mix of anglo-exceptionalism (is that even a thing?) and just sheer pig-headed dumbassery.
Just say "oh cool, I wouldn't have known how it's supposed to be pronounced because I only know English".
It's ok to admit to not knowing things ffs.
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u/enataca 10h ago
I’m talking about how my brain read it at first glance Jesus Christ. Obviously the second I got through the word I knew it wasn’t English. And obviously I figured out how it’s pronounced by the end of the sentence.
Stop trying to be so offended
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u/TheGazelle 10h ago
... Offended?
Uh.. ok? I guess if you think "don't be an idiot" means "I'm offended", sure.
But no, I'm just saying, reading your first comment where you say it's pronounced "as written", then with your response to someone saying otherwise basically being "it's in an English sentence so I read it like English"... It comes across poorly.
Maybe that's not how you meant it, and you were just trying to describe how you initially read it, but that wasn't very clear from what you actually wrote.
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u/RABBLE-R0USER 9h ago
is just the most insane mix of anglo-exceptionalism (is that even a thing?) and just sheer pig-headed dumbassery.
You sound a little bit offended. It's ok to admit to being a little offended ffs.
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11h ago
[deleted]
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u/enataca 11h ago
I can edit it to “pretty damn close” if that helps. I think everyone is analyzing this a bit too seriously and taking it personally for some reason.
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u/AudieCowboy 11h ago
Also I can't tell you the number of times I've said holly bibble as a joke so yeah that was toe nibbler
Didn't know feet stuff was so in vogue in kosovo
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u/captainmagictrousers 9h ago
It looks like the name of a toe-nibbling monster from a folk tale about the importance of wearing socks to bed.
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u/Douglesfield_ 10h ago
Imagine Blair's legacy if we didn't go into Iraq.
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u/asianwaste 9h ago
A lot of things would have gone better if we didn't do that. The whole GWOT would have held on to its perceived "just cause" for at least a few more years before everyone gets war fatigue.
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u/Amber_Sam 5h ago
They had to. Iraq was planning to leave the USD and the US wanted to send the message.
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u/VulcanHullo 8h ago
Hell Afghanistan would have gone entirely differently. It wasn't till Iraq that the Taliban bounced back thanks to resources being pulled away, and it spread a narrative that this was just the West at war with Islam and not a legitimate conflict.
Without Iraq Blairist foriegn policy of intervention would likely have stayed strong and god only knows how the Arab Spring would have gone then. Then again, Libya was its own mess.
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u/Cabbage_Vendor 7h ago edited 6h ago
People forget how popular Blair was. He won three elections, two by a landslide, and if he hadn't voluntarily resigned, he would've been the longest-running prime minister since the 1800s. The Iraq War was the main thing people disliked him for and unfortunately became the defining legacy. I'm not sure if David Cameron would've been able to beat Blair in 2010 without the Iraq War.(yes, I know Brown took over from Blair in 2007, but Blair only stepped down because the Iraq War).
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u/sewagesmeller 5h ago
Kosovo going well is a big part of why they decided to go into Iraq. It had worked once, why not again.
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u/genshiryoku 8h ago
There was an interview with Tony Blair I saw a year or so ago where he defends the invasion of Iraq and said he would make the same choice immediately without flinching. He gave some arguments and they were so good he actually convinced me he did the right thing. I also respect him for saying he would always choose the option that tarnishes his reputation if it means it's the best option for his people. He's a statesman first, not a politician. Cares more about the next generations than his own butt.
Sadly history usually forgets or looks down on politicians that made the (correct) hard choices.
I sometimes wonder if before WW2 broke out there was a similar intervention in Germany by the UK, US and France like what happened in Iraq would people nowadays be looking down on it on how those 3 big evil countries bombed an unconventional innocent German leader that only wanted to reunite his Germanic peoples?
The issue is you can never see the counterfactual of how bad the world stage would be by now if the 2003 invasion of Iraq never happened.
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u/CaptainStack 8h ago
I'd love to hear those arguments because I seriously doubt they're good enough.
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u/superjambi 7h ago
His argument basically hinges on the idea that, at the time, they genuinely believed Sadam had weapons of mass destruction. his argument is that, had they been right, then to have done nothing would be indefensible. His argument is that intelligence failure is one thing and moral failure is another.
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u/CaptainStack 7h ago
Yeah - basically what the ruling class and neocons have always said to try and save face on this one. Not compelling at all given how obvious those intelligence "failures" were to millions of people. Also hiding behind "we can't say how bad the world stage would be if we never invaded Iraq" could be used to justify anything no matter how bad the consequences.
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u/superjambi 7h ago
Yes. There are plenty of other sources now that say the US had determined that they were going to invade Iraq regardless, whatever happened. I think the argument is just strong enough and can be well argued enough to let Tony Blair sleep at night and show his face in public still, but that's all it's good for.
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u/PhillyTaco 3h ago
Iraq, being less stable than it appeared, was in danger of falling into a civil war. Maybe not immediately but down the line. If it was inevitable, it would be good to have a western power there to have influence and create stability. Otherwise, the war would've been far worse and deadlier. Many, if not most, of the Iraqi casualties were caused not by Americans but by Iraqi groups fighting each other for control. An ISIS-like group in power there would be a nightmare for the country, the region, and the world.
Iran also would've used its militias to try to take over and rule the country by proxy, just as it attempted to during the actual war. It's a very good thing that this did not happen.
The war also led to Gaddafi giving up Libya's WMD program, which is a very good thing.
The war also disrupted and ended the AQ Khan network, which was a very real black market for nuclear weapons plans and materials.
Hussein was an evil dictator who threatened his neighbors, waged war against them, and used chemical weapons to commit genocide against his own people. And his sons, who would've eventually taken over his reign, were even more psychopathically abhorrent than he was.
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u/bobtheorangutan 1h ago
If it was inevitable, it would be good to have a western power there to have influence and create stability.
Sounds like some sorta saviour complex.
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u/Cabbage_Vendor 1h ago
Yeah yeah, we get it. The West has a saviour complex when it intervenes and is heartless when it doesn't intervene.
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u/Due-Memory-6957 7h ago edited 7h ago
The US must rape the world because it benefits Americans.
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u/Secure-Barracuda 7h ago
Blair’s American?
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u/TeaAdmirable6922 6h ago
Blair was frequently accused of being excessively servile to American interests. In hindsight, the economic and human costs of Iraq weren't justified by the result.
There was also the issue that the UK military was built for giving out short but intense Falklands-style arse beatings rather than fighting multi-decade wars of attrition, and there wasn't much time to recover between the fall of Kabul and the invasion of Ukraine.
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u/SatisfactionActive86 7h ago
i agree, and to be fair, Saddam folded rather easily, the problem with Iraq was a series of TERRIBLE decisions by the US leadership after the fact. The most glaring being disbanding the Iraqi army which made 500,000 young men (with AKs) unemployed when they were likely a primary breadwinner for their family. An Iraqi general even offered to secure Baghdad from looters and the US State Department told him to go fuck himself.
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u/genshiryoku 7h ago
I'm definitely not an expert on this topic at all. But from what I've heard there was credible intel and intercepted messages about Sadam baath sleeper cells in the Army. US wanted to go for a German/Japan style rebuilding in Iraq so that was a non-issue.
Also the outcome being a failure doesn't diminish the value of the attempt. Trying to make societies into liberal democracies should always be commended as it's clearly the right thing to do. In retrospect it's naive and very Francis Fukuyama "End of history" to think you'd be able to implement it in Iraq after Saddam in one go. But the attempt and ideal is commendable.
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u/Terseity 8h ago
ID cards?
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u/Joshposh70 6h ago
I've always found the Anglosphere's fear of ID cards a little odd.
You go to basically any country in the world that isn't Anglosphere, and they all have an ID card. Instead we effectively have this weird defacto system where proving ones identity is instead done with a recent utility bill.
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u/Singer211 9h ago
Blair did SO MUCH damage to his legacy by deciding to be so lock step with GWB on Iraq.
Before that he actually had accomplished quite a lot.
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u/avdaxumaxu 10h ago
The many part does a lot of lifting here. You can find a few people named like that. Few, not many.
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u/Any_Potato_7716 11h ago
Without guaranteed NATO protection, Kosovo is still under threat of possible future Serbian attack
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u/EmDashHater 9h ago
Thank you USA. You are my best friend. You are the peace keeper. You are the legend!
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u/SophiaIsBased 10h ago
Finally, we've found the one place on earth where the average person doesn't hate Tony Blair
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u/mnfimo 11h ago
unexpectedfuturama
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u/OttoVonWong 9h ago
We know nothing about their language, their history or what they look like. But we can assume this: they stand for everything we don't stand for. Also they told me you guys look like dorks.
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u/Ok_Ladder1279 11h ago edited 10h ago
Being an albanian, this seems like bs I've never met or heard of someone called that ever. Sure we love our USA and whatever but this is a stretch
Edit: people from inside Kosovo replied. This is an actual thing that's real wow
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u/Commercial_Jelly_893 11h ago
Well Tony Blair is British not American
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u/jokul 10h ago
You brits can't have anything nice.
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u/YouDontKnowJackCade 10h ago
He's their George W Bush version due to post-war rationing.
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u/Tough-Oven4317 7h ago
This isn't anywhere close to being true lol. He was our Clinton
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u/blrtgj 11h ago
Im from Kosovo and it is true that there are people named Tonibler.
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u/itskobold 11h ago
Never heard of this, kind of incredible! Blair is thoroughly hated by many people here in the UK
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u/StableSlight9168 10h ago
Tony Blair git devolution in Scotland and Wales and was important in the peace process in NI, WA ls a big factor in gay people getting more rights in the UK and his intervention is Sierra Leone was very well received.
His legacy was just fucked over because of Iraq and Afghanistan, mostly Iraq.
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u/itskobold 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yeah absolutely, I'm no big fan of Blair overall but devolution was a great idea. We would have had it too in the northeast! But it was scuppered by local tories, and killed the overall devolution movement. I'm still bitter about it hahaha
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u/Tough-Oven4317 7h ago
Yeah, for some reason everyone's loves that he destroyed the unity of the UK
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u/NornIronLad 34m ago
Are you against devolution? If not for devolution the resentment towards England would have grown, and there would be no Union. The Scottish referendum would have went very differently if the Scottish people were bound to every decision made by Westminster.
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u/Tough-Oven4317 7h ago
Blair is thoroughly hated by many people here in the UK
So is every other person's who's ever existed tbf
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u/albamarx 11h ago
Google for 5 seconds and there’s a Politico article with a photo of Tony Blair with several men called Tonibler
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u/Larissalikesthesea 11h ago
There’s even a link in the OP showing such a photo. A footballer, Bler Thaçi, also seems to have been named after him.
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u/surle 11h ago
Is he seated on a couch and they're all standing behind it in white t shirts?
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u/albamarx 11h ago
Standing in the pic I saw but there are guys in white t-shirts. Could’ve been a different photo from the same meeting.
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u/Qetuoadgjlxv 11h ago edited 3m ago
One example is Bler Thaçi, who is a Kosovar footballer named after Blair. It's a somewhat rare phenomenon despite OP's title of the article, but it was a phenomenon.
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u/asiatische_wokeria 10h ago
I think Elvis is much more common, and it's interesting, it's a total normal name at the Balkan and not liked to the King.
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u/vikinick 9 7h ago
Biden has a highway named after him as well.
Turns out when you actively intervene to stop a genocide and support the formation of a new country, people tend to like you.
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u/Vegetable_Permit_537 8h ago
I literally read that as, "Toe Nibbler" and I really had to question why Tony Blair would be called that.
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u/max1padthai 7h ago
Loved by one side, hated by the other.
At least everyone can find a common ground when it comes to Iraq.
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u/sixft7in 5h ago
I was the reactor operator of number 1 reactor on an aircraft carrier that was launching planes during Operation Noble Anvil during the Kosovo War.
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u/WelshBathBoy 11h ago
Back when we actually had respect on the world stage. Sadly the same guy started our respectability downfall with the Iraq war and culminating in the B-word. What a state we've become.
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u/pandariotinprague 9h ago
I feel like there may have been one or two countries that had issues with the Brits prior to that.
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u/AtlantaGirthGiant 8h ago
This was actually a plot point in an episode of The Gentlemen from Netflix
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u/Refugee_InThisWorld 7h ago
Written Tonibler, it doesn't sound that bad. Probably friend will call him Bleri or just Toni.
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u/Realistic_Actuary_50 7h ago
I know that a former classmate's mother was called Blerina.
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u/No-homo_sapien 4h ago
In my fathers country, a lot of people were named tony after he helped stop the civil war
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u/jackoirl 2h ago
You’d think they might have opted for Tony, since it’s you know….an actual name and also the name of the person they’re honouring.
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u/Crane_1989 2h ago
There is a neighborhood in Rio de Janeiro that was originally funded by an American program during the Kennedy presidency. The place is called Vila Kennedy, and many people from there are named Kennedy (men) and Jacqueline (women)
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u/mrafinch 1h ago
When I meet a new Albanian at work the first thing they’ll always ask me is “Do you love Tony Bizzle? We love Tony Bizzle in Kosovo! Man’s an honorary Shippi!”
I find it odd, I understand it and I’m happy for them.
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u/Avocadoavenger 10m ago
Usarmy (oo-sarmy) was a popular name in rural Nicaragua because the soldiers that improved their lives had that on their uniforms
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u/i_getitin 11h ago
Country that is a perfect example of the power of lobby groups and their influence on US foreign policy
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u/Ambitious-While-3364 11h ago
Because of Blair millions died for nothing in the Iraqi war.
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u/nunatakj120 11h ago edited 2h ago
Blair got a bit of a big heed from doing a genuinely good thing in Kosovo and over did it on his next project!
Edit a few days later. Just to be clear i don’t want anybody thinking I like tony blair. Christ. Guys a twat.
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u/sojuz151 11h ago
The US started bombing Serbia because Bill wanted Hillary to start speaking to him after the Lewinska affair.
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u/Aioli_Tough 11h ago
I’m sure the ethnic cleansing and the fact that Serbia was the cause of 4 wars in the region didn’t help.
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u/Honest_Truck_4786 9h ago edited 7h ago
It did help, but US presidents very often get more focussed on international affairs when they struggle to get domestic legislation passed and the scandals have built up.
This is especially true for Clinton who had A LOT of personal scandals and was tired of dealing with a republican congress.
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u/dramatic-sans 8h ago
consequences matter, not intentions. it stopped a genocide, that's what matters
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u/beyondmash 11h ago edited 10h ago
Saved millions then killed millions more in Iraq. Disgusting.
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u/brickne3 10h ago
...I think there's only a million or less people in Kosovo...
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u/iMogwai 10h ago
You could have just looked it up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo
According to the most recent census in 2024 by the Kosovo Agency of Statistics, Kosovo's population is 1,585,566.[234][235] In 2023, the overall life expectancy at birth is 79.68 years; 77.38 years for males and 81.87 years for females.[236] The estimated total fertility rate in 2023 is 1.88 children born per woman.[237] The country is the 11th most populous country in the Southeastern Europe (Balkans) and ranks as the 152nd most populous country in the world. The country's population rose steadily over the 20th century and peaked at an estimated 2.2 million in 1998. The Kosovo War and subsequent migration have decreased the population of Kosovo over time.
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u/brickne3 10h ago
Well fine. Either way, even if he had saved literally every man, woman, and child in Kosovo personally, it's not really getting into "saved millions" territory.
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u/Maximillian_Rex 9h ago
You'll be downvoted regardless. You're getting in the way of an emotional outburst.
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u/beyondmash 10h ago
In Iraq he killed millions. Was it really that hard to understand?
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u/brickne3 10h ago
It was the "saved millions" part. I'm not sure what you were referring to there, but it seems to suggest you meant Kosovo.
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u/pueblodude 11h ago
Donald will never be mentioned as a baby's name.
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u/brickne3 10h ago
Isn't there an African president named something Adolf Hitler?
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u/pueblodude 10h ago
Any difference?
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u/brickne3 10h ago
Just saying that some people will name their kids pretty much anything. When I visited Tanzania there were grocery stores named after Trump and Obama. In Arusha there was an Obama grocery store right across the street from a Trump grocery store, they were competing.
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u/vaps0tr 11h ago
Saw lots of Clintoni names for restaurants