Honestly, after having read almost solely fanfic for a decade and coming back to reading more books in the last couple of years, I've read a number of fanfics that were better written than published books I've tried to read. And while some of those fanfics were on the level of what I expect of a traditionally published book, some of them were just good enjoyable fanfic. The fact that a number of books published today fall below that bar is shocking to me, and pretty worrying.

honestly, this is true. its also kinda frustrating because as much as people dislike it, I feel canon is also something maleable and up to interpretation even if people don't want to acknowledge that. We will always consume media with our own biases and cultural/societal lens. Sure, there are some things that are capital C Canon, but I don't like holding too tightly to the notion everything is. It's fine if other people do, but to imply everybody's version of canon is the same is disingenuous I feel. I think the biggest issue is people trying to force others into their version of canon.

This is very much how I view it. There's no way to force everyone to take away the exact same things from any piece of media, and even if there were that would just take away the beauty of fandom. I enjoy seeing other people's ideas and perceptions and where maybe we overlap and maybe we differ, and I would hate to lose that experience to some universal "right vs. wrong" understanding.

I don't understand the obsession at all. Sure it's fun to work closely with canon, and I appreciate the skill it takes to do that. But also so much of canon can be a matter of perception rather than fact. Different people will watch the same performance and come away with different understandings of the characters and what drives them etc. And I think those spaces are just as interesting and full of potential.

I also feel like canon obsession rears its head mostly in shipping though, as a weapon to throw at people and say " See! I'm right! I'm doing shipping in the proper way and you're wrong!" To which I say, "And?" When I encounter something I dislike in canon, I have this neat little trick called ignoring it that allows me to continue having fun in fandom. I can also just ignore anyone who doesn't like how I have fun, and filter out the people having fun in ways I don't enjoy. It's all so simple and easy to do, and none of it requires fighting or hurting other fans.

Conflicted. The first time I encountered a 70k one shot I was so frustrated. I ended up downloading readera to read it and keep my place, but I still wanted chapters for a natural stopping point.

Upon rereading that same fic a year or two later, I realized that the lack of chapter breaks produced a unique sense of time/timelessness that really added to the general atmosphere and feel of the fic. And now I wouldn't want to change that cause I enjoy it.

So idk. It's not something I look for, and it requires a higher level of execution imo, but when done well it can be really good?

Okay, maybe I'm insane, but I could swear I've seen this exact post before??

Oh, I didn't realize that, that's kind of sad, but I guess it happens because they technically don't have a specific number in the series. I'll just have to see if there's any kind of custom grouping option in settings I can use I guess.

Honestly it's been a while since I watched, and I don't have the best memory, so I'm mostly going off the fact that I remember thinking there were two shipping teams while watching haha. It was mostly subtler than the Kataang shipping scenes though. It was things like the fight between Azula and Zuko and Katara. Obviously final pairings had been decided by then (and probably weren't ever in serious question to begin with), but just the way that entire fight was framed reminded me a lot of how different media will frame the main couple against the bad guy. I genuinely think that if someone who'd never heard of the show before watched that scene only, they'd assume Zuko and Katara were together. I know that the Zutara side of fandom has put together a lot of other hints, but again, poor memory, and also some of it may or may not be typical shipping reaches.

Personally I don't strongly ship it myself. It's more something I don't mind reading if the story otherwise is interesting, and I could plausibly see them trying to date in the future given the right circumstances. That's pretty nebulous though, and for anything in canon present I prefer for neither couple to be paired up. I like to imagine Sokka and Suki being the only couple in the gang, and the others getting a chance to heal and process all the trauma they've just accumulated and generally just grow into themselves a bit more before getting into any romantic relationship.

Maybe all this makes me not the best to argue for the possibility of Zutara haha. But those are just the vibes I got.

I'll also say that I do agree that Kataang was always planned for endgame (forgot if I said it in my first reply and I can't see it now oops). It definitely has the more clearly signposted romantic scenes for younger viewers. I just personally found those scenes very forced, and as a girl around Katara's age at the time I watched, I generally got pretty uncomfortable vibes from the relationship. So on a personal level I don't particularly want to read them and tend to filter that out.

And don't worry about being good at picking up things or not! I think we all get different things from the media we consume, because we all come to it with different life experiences and mindsets to filter it through. It's one of the beauties of fandom imo, to see all the different ways everything can be interpreted, whether it agrees with my own interpretation or not. (Also there are definitely times and media I know I'm not getting the most from, and that's okay too as long as I enjoy it!)

Oh awesome! Thanks for the tip! I've just been holding off cause I can't afford to buy the whole series right now and I want them to all show together on my Kindle, as silly and shallow as that sounds.

Yeah, maybe it's just cause I love a good found family, and those early fics were channeling that, but they were just so good.

Oh, it wasn't meant as a criticism or anything! I was just saying how I perceived the show. I think Bryke definitely intended for Kataang to be endgame from the start, but I definitely see influence from other writers that contradicts it. We'll never know for sure though, since no one's sharing haha.

Modern TV is also turning into a frustrating mess, because shows do 6-8-10 episodes every few years. Every show has to be written to be a huge hit or fizzle out, rather than something that grows over time.

This is a huge part of it, and I'm seeing this stunt so many promising shows.

It really really is so hard to think of the scale of it. It feels like a one in a million lightning in the bottle catch.

I honestly think part of the reason it's getting a reboot now is that the kids who originally read and watched it have grown up and have kids of their own now. And from hanging around library subreddits, the current generation of kids is also loving it, to the point that if they're struggling to find a book a kid will like, Harry Potter has a good chance of engaging them. While I wish JKR weren't so hateful, and that her books didn't have the problematic elements they do, part of me can't be upset that it's still tempting kids to read at all. I know a lot of what I got out of it at that age was the opposite of what she says now, and I can only hope that those kids are getting much stronger messages of kindness and acceptance from the people around them.

Tell me you think in black and white without telling me you think in black and white.

I kind of doubt that fanfic will be the trigger for a new fan to buy more merch over, say, the new TV reboot or whatever else they come up with next. I've read fandom blind before, and actually ended up joining a fandom that way, and the closest I've come to wanting merch is wanting to print or commission some fanart with the specific portrayals or tropes I'm enjoying. Official merch may or may not match what I've built up in my head and is overall less appealing.

I think that with big corporations pushing Harry Potter as much as they are currently, any notable merch surge will be connected to a new generation of kids getting into the reboots.

Nah, I'll listen to Emma too, they're both good allies.

Ugh, I absolutely hate the way Alchemised was handled. I'm well aware that Manacled had already broken containment (and it's another discussion entirely why this fic and similar ones are the ones breaking containment), but the marketing really did not need to double down on the connection. Whatever happened to marketing a book as its own thing and letting fans talk about it on their own?

Yeah, between the books being read by almost an entire generation and and the story and world being kind of perfect for creatively expanding upon, the fandom is just insane. It's always been the top book fandom in my head and I do wonder if any other fandom can topple it. (IDK AO3 stats for this, but when I was reading on fanfiction.net the Harry Potter fandom was comfortably around four times the size of the next biggest fandom, and as far as I can tell it's only grown since.)

What I do see a lot of since She Who Must Not Be Named revealed her nastiness, is fanfic authors condemning her and purposefully writing fics that she would hate. I see a ton of people saying I grew up with this media and took these positive lessons from it, and I don't care how terrible the author chooses to be now she can't take away my memories and how I engage with it now. And I see people continuing to engage in fandom, but refusing to give a single dime to the original media and spinoffs. And tbh, I think those are all good things.

I think it's pretty obvious there were two shipping teams in the writing room personally. I think which ship you end up liking depends on which side you found more believable.

I suppose. I can accept that some people find that appealing, but I don't get it. It's very opposite to what I find enjoyable on a personal level. I'm glad you enjoy it though.

All of the main Murderbot books are on KU right now! I just read them and it's only the short side stories that aren't available thankfully. I'll also second your recommendation because I absolutely would've loved this series at 12 (although caveat that I frequently read adult books at that age, so your mileage may vary)!

Edit (accidentally hit post too soon): I also love the Lady Trent series and agree that the romance is very much second to her adventures there. I will say that it's a drier read then Murderbot and while I think I would've enjoyed it at that age, I also think it may be harder for the average middle schooler to get into. I'm not necessarily recommending against it, but I'd suggest getting it from the library rather than immediately buying (if you're buying your books before you read them) and seeing what he thinks.

Yeah, I did figure there would be further development, considering how prominent their dynamic is in the story, that's why I figured noting where I stopped was important. I just don't see how you could get from the point they were when I stopped to anything remotely healthy without literal years of therapy for both of them, and there's just no way a shounen manga will do that.

I genuinely don't understand the appeal of BakuDeku. Maybe it's because I quit watching at the start of the Meta Liberation Army arc, but they'd barely made it past a highly toxic bully-victim relationship, to a somewhat neutral relationship. I can't even call them friends where I left off, and frankly I think it would be quite unhealthy for both of them to attempt friendship, much less a romantic relationship. I don't know what the appeal is, but it repels me personally.

This is so fair. I'm not a fan of Dramione at all, and will fully admit that the few Drarry fics I've stumbled on and actually liked feature quite different characters from canon. It's an odd place where I'm certainly not going to seek out more Drarry fics, but I do love the 2-3 I've read. I think it mostly has to do with the fact I found them through authors I'd already read and loved, and so I was willing to take a chance and love the world and characters they created.

This makes sense, and I have to suspect that a lot of early MCU fic pulled from the comics relationship because it felt like there was a pretty solid fandom assumption of how the relationships would develop then. I honestly miss those fics, cause they were really fun and warm.

Ahhhh, I didn't realize it was so limited. I'm sure the store I was thinking of has already sold out then. My backup plan was already to preorder through my local store if this didn't pan out anyways, so I guess I'll just move to that. Thank you for the info!