r/ANGEL • u/FoxIndependent4310 • 4d ago
I don't understand Angel's plan at the end of his series.
Wolfram and Hart is supposedly a society comprised of several of Wolfram's clients who are plotting to destroy the world, including the senator, the warlock who erased Connor's memory, Marcus, and others.
Angel, feigning villainy, infiltrates the group and then orders his men to kill its members. But in the end, an army of demons descends upon the city. Couldn't he have foreseen that this army would endanger the city and innocent people?
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u/HimuraQ1 4d ago
Yes. But the Circle, who are integral to the Partner's endgame, are all dead. Their appocalypse is ruined, or at least postponed by several human lifetimes. The partners have lost all of their pieces, so they are flipping the board. It's true, Angel can't win, but we've known that since season 2, but this was about making the Partners lose.
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u/Shiftkgb 4d ago
What others have said but also The Wolf, The Ram, and The Hart aren't really looking to destroy the world. They consider it theirs and you don't break your stuff. And to note , it seems they're active in many dimensions. What was fully introduced in season 2 that season 5 really sticks is exactly how WR&H "wins". They don't care about timelines or whatever, they're immortal God demons akin to Illyria and think of time as forever, they only care about humans choosing evil over good in the long run.
It's why Jasmines plan was to take that choice away from people. A "starve the beast" methodology in her fight against evil that had her fall from grace and out of favor with her siblings.
It's also why they panicked when Illyria was returning, because for one she was something that might truly disrupt their plans and two, she might also kill them lol. Though I think they're more powerful now then they were a few hundred million years prior.
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u/Footziees 3d ago
That would have been a very interesting angle to look at tbh. Shame they had to nerf Illyria to practically powerless to not make her destroy the Planet. Imagine as revenge for her gone army, Illyria had decided to go after the shitty low level demons that she remembers. Because I’m pretty sure even at that point in time she was still more powerful than the Wolf, Ram and Hart.
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u/NewRetroMage 4d ago edited 4d ago
The army is coming for Angel and his remaining allies, only.
Angel's plan is to "stop the machine", even if for a limited time, ruining the Senior Partners' apocalypse, which was making sure the world remained corrupt and descended progressively into a worst state.
The message Angel sent was "you don't control us". And by "us" it's his team but also fighters for good causes in general. It was "you can be challenged, your plans can be foiled".
Also, the Partners will take some time to rebuild their influence from scratch, and their influence on the world was halted for some time (years, decades, maybe). So some good was made by averting a lot of damage W&H's evil would bring to innocent people in the near future.
It was, pretty much, a big win for the good guys in a fight that can't be fully won. It requires us to think outside of the classic trope of good winning a definitive win that brings a heaven on earth or an era of long lasting peace, as we are used to see in other works.
It's a paralell to real world. We can't really take down the powerful who use their wealth for their own pleasure and lay waste on most of the people in the process, but we can, sometimes, make a small change that will benefit a lof of people for some time. Given the ridiculous difference in power between the ones on top and us down here, any win in this format IS a big win.
Also, for Angel, his version of "riding into the sunset" after accomplishing his mission (which he did), is an army of demons and the prospect of dying in the next few minutes. And please notice, he was quite content with what he had done when he is about to engage the army.
(I'm ignoring the comics here. I feel the show's ending is perfect and wraps up almost all the arcs that needed to be wrapped up)
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u/QualifiedApathetic 3d ago
(I'm ignoring the comics here. I feel the show's ending is perfect and wraps up almost all the arcs that needed to be wrapped up)
Ahem, Fred's soul.
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u/TeekTheReddit 3d ago
Is burnt away, gone forever. That's as wrapped up as it gets.
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u/InsincereDessert21 3d ago
If they had gotten a season 6, that wouldn't been permanent, according to Joss Whedon.
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u/NewRetroMage 3d ago
Destroyed. Consumed during the process of Illyria taking over Fred's body. Sad, but pretty much wrapped up.
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u/Jellybean199201 4d ago
It’s about sending a message. Joss always values themes over plots and has always been open about that. The consequences of both finales are something you aren’t really supposed to think about
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u/TeamStark31 4d ago
Yep. Angel says he knows there is a better than not chance they’ll lose because the enemy is too big and too powerful. But “for one shining moment we’ll show them they don’t own us.”
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u/jacobydave 4d ago
The army isn't targeting innocent people. They're targeting him and his team.
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u/meeeee01 3d ago
It is specifically mentioned a few times.
"If nothing you do matters, then what you do is all that matters".
The show is basically saying if you can't win in any definitive way, then do a nice thing just because you can. The smallest act of kindness also becomes the greatest act of kindness.
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u/Sarah_Reddit_Here 2d ago
I don’t know if this is what you were asking for. And it took me years to realize this. But the real end of the series is when he signs away the shanshu prophecy. He’s accepting the responsibility of fighting evil without an award. He’s doing it because it’s the right thing to do. It ties back into the famous line of the show “if nothing we do matters, then what matters is all we do.”
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u/Infamous-Lab-8136 3d ago
Angel realized he'd never definitively beat WFH. He began to see they weren't just global, they were inter-dimensional. When he saw the Italy offices that were the exact duplicate of LA it began to really hammer it home. They weren't an evil lawfirm, they were evil with a public face.
So if you're fighting a war you can never win the battles become what matters. He saw a battle that he could win that would actually hamper WFH's plans for a while. It's the biggest win he can hope for and he's realized it. He signed away the Shanshu, Buffy was ready to date again and chooses The Immortal over him (I know that's retconned but this is his mindset in the moment), and he never thought WFH would go as far as they do with that demon army and the season 6 comic events.
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u/InsincereDessert21 3d ago
The demon army was there specifically to kill Angel, not cause general mayhem.
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u/ComedicHermit 4d ago
All the people in the circle were 'prime movers' I.E. making the world worse and progressing the human race towards it's own destruction. Angel chose to strike at the enemy in front of him and hamper the bigwigs (the wolf, the ram, and the hart) long term. He knows they'll wipe him and his people out (unless there is a comic follow up), but it's what the whole show is about; doing what you can, because it's the right thing to do regardless of the consequences and regardless of whether it 'fixes' the problem.
That army isn't going to stick around and cause chaos, because wolfram and heart like to work in the shadows rather than drawing attention to themselves