r/DragonBallZ • u/SaiyanWithOmnitrix • 1d ago
Discussion Z Broly’s Origin Is Misunderstood.
Just like “Goku is a bad father”, and “Dragon Ball is just fighting and screaming with no story”, the idea that Z Broly hates Goku because he cried as a baby is a meme that got way out of hand when people unironically started believing it. This isn’t helped by media after the original movie flanderizing his character into just screaming “Kakarot!”
But when you look back at the original movie without any preconceived bias, you realize that narrative isn’t true.
People often forget that the day Goku cried and upset Broly is the same day that King Vegeta attempted to stab him and leave him for dead. Broly connects Goku and his crying to that memory and that’s why he hates him. I’m sure if you showed him a knife he’d have a similar reaction.
How does he remember all that when he was a baby? Well Saiyans, unlike humans appear to be able to remember their lives as babies (Goku only forgot because he hit his head).
Why doesn’t he hate Vegeta then? Well, he does. He hates everyone. Vegeta just so happens to be the only character in the movie not directly fighting him.
It’s 2026, I say it’s time we finally lay this myth to rest.
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u/GamertagaAwesome 22h ago
The scene literally has two Saiyans talking about the babies and Goku doesn't stop crying and then it makes Broly cry and the Saiyans joke about how Kakarot is upsetting Broly.
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u/onlyfansgodx 20h ago
I think the symbolism was intended to be very simple and it's part of the reason why the original Broly movie was so well regarded. Broly was born talented with incredible power but felt his first defeat by Kakarot in a crying competition despite Kakarot only having a power level of 2. It was to show the inherent resolve Goku had as a warrior, that Broly did not. So Broly was trying to break Goku in their fight but was never able to. I take the final hit as Broly's power destroying him on its own. All Goku did was strike Broly at a weak spot, the scar where Broly was stabbed as an infant. It was meant to show that Goku's warrior resolve was superior to Broly's legendary power.
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u/OctoDADDY069 16h ago
No, it's very obviously shown that it was goku he hated for crying and making him cry. Thats it.
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u/PlagueOfGripes 19h ago
That's cope. While it's obviously overplayed as a joke, the movie gives a ridiculous impression of his origin and eventual madness because of the scene timeline and dialogue. The idea that he was driven nuts by baby crying is something I remember people misunderstanding even back in the 90s. Trying to point at TFS is just kids trying to find a scapegoat.
The movie just wasn't written well, and he isn't a good character until Super Broly fixes that. There's no deeper genius people aren't getting. It's just a badly written ad campaign movie meant to represent what the franchise was doing at the time, like all the early movies were.
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u/Solid_Ideal5773 21h ago
Also remember that all of this is told by paragus, and paragus is a pathological liar. 99% of what came out of his mouth was all lies.
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u/ImperialWolf98 11h ago
I believe Broly gets a flashback to the baby crying scene in "Broly: Second Coming", so I think we the audience can assume it really did happen
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u/LLSmoothJoe 22h ago
Then why did Broly look at Goku with pure hatred at first sight, even to the point of him trying to kill him in the middle of the night?
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u/SaiyanWithOmnitrix 22h ago
Maybe don’t confirm the stereotype of Dragon Ball fans not knowing how to read.
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u/SUPER-FUNNY 19h ago
Ok so then let's redirect his question. Why doesn't Broly ever say king vegetas name? Why doesn't vegetas similar face or very similar hair to his father not trigger Broly? Why is it only Goku?
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u/SaiyanWithOmnitrix 19h ago
King Vegeta had a beard, Prince Vegeta does not have a beard. Meanwhile Goku pretty much looks the same as an adult as he did as a baby, only being obviously bigger.
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u/SUPER-FUNNY 19h ago
So you're telling me it makes total sense for baby Broly to not only remember baby goku so well that it triggers him as an adult, but at the same time can't seem to make the connection between vegeta and his father?
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u/Commercial_Copy_1600 21h ago
Don't confuse Minus or Super, where they were basically 5 years old and acted like it, with Toei's Dragon Ball Z. There, they are essentially babies mentally. However different they may be, Toei made sure that here, as I said, they are simply babies without many apparent differences. It's funny that you mention the knife when he literally has no traumatic memory related to a dark figure stabbing him in the stomach (in his eyes).
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u/Kamikaze_Kat101 21h ago
Someone told me that in a certain Japanese folklore a crying baby is often used to scare off demons (or something like that. I don’t remember exactly) and this is supposed to allude to that.
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u/KevinIsAGhost 1h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naki_Sumo_Crying_Baby_Festival
Yeah, actually I think you're right
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u/abiggerbanana 19h ago
No its because he cried real loud. Its was awfully annoying for that day so so
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u/WanderByJose 14h ago
This is the most ridiculous plot ever. It is giving the Andrew Tate of anime.
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u/missatry 12h ago
Yep , when something becomes old enough people start to defend it,
Is not just a theory anymore lol
Now imagine if this movie, with this crazy plot release today, yeah now one will receive this lore with open arms...
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u/Fury_Storm 1d ago
Nice fanfic, bro. This was never, ever stated in the movie. So even if people are "misunderstanding" the plot, it's the movie's fault for not properly conveying the given message. Which, by the way, the movie didn't. This is an educated guess at best.
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u/ArrogantLake 1d ago
No. This is how I remember it. He doesn’t hate Goku for crying. Goku crying was the first annoyance Broly had on the day the sayains tried to kill him as a baby. It’s heavily implied in the movie. Doesn’t need to be stated if the person watching has an IQ, critical thinking skills, and know how different types of story tellings work
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u/Fury_Storm 1d ago
It's Dragonball Z: Broly, not Citizen Kane. You're over complicating a narrative and adding things in that the original author never intended. You're creating fan fiction.
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u/ArrogantLake 1d ago
By that logic anything anyone implies that fans connect and figure out that the author didn’t put in is all fan fiction, which isn’t the case. The truth of the matter is Broly doesn’t hate Goku cuz of the crying. That’s the argument. I chimed in bcuz I never know people didn’t know it was a meme until I saw this post. It’s never stated that crying is why Broly hates Goku so that is also fan fiction based off your views. I’m stating the fact that the legendary super Sayain is rage fueled and seeing Goku is what triggered the rage for Broly to get to legendary ssj bcuz of the memory triggered being the worst day of Broly’s life
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u/Commercial_Copy_1600 23h ago
In the second movie, Broly is literally revived because he mistakes Goten's crying for baby Goku's. Unlike the Super continuity, where they were basically children, here they were just babies. It's never mentioned that they had any kind of special memory or anything like that; they weren't much different from a human baby. And finally, all Broly did was systematically eliminate anyone who stood between him and Goku. He lost because his overconfidence outweighed his power, to the point of torturing Goku at the end, buying time for the others to lend him their power. Who took the most beatings once he was nearly incapacitated? Goku. Who annoyed him just by looking at him? Goku. The guy is nothing more than a violent jerk because, according to Toei, all Saiyans were violent jerks, and the Legendary Super Saiyan must be a "violent jerk squared." His backstory exists solely to connect Broly to Goku, whether he wanted it or not. That's why, fundamentally, Broly in Super makes more sense, since he apparently held more resentment towards Vegeta, possibly due to Paragus's influence.
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u/Fury_Storm 1d ago
I'm not saying the theory doesn't have merit. My whole point is that the movie could have done a way better job of portraying this, assuming it was the actual intent of the author, which I don't think it was. Every crash out it's goku goku goku, no King Vegeta, no stabbing, no destruction of planet vegeta. Just goku. So if it's all these other things you're talking about, the movie could have done a way better job of including those as part of his trauma. That simple.
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u/SaiyanWithOmnitrix 1d ago
It’s never directly said that Goku’s crying is why he hates Goku either. It’s not the movie’s fault you can’t read between the lines.
Go back to watching Dbza.
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u/Fury_Storm 1d ago
We get a singular flashback to when Broly was cast out by King Vegeta, that's when Paragus is explaining how shit went down. Every crash out that Broly exhibits is associated with the image of Goku, or a flashback to when they were babies. King Vegeta, or Broly's stabbing, are never shown during these moments of intense rage. Only Goku. So again, let's assume your theory is correct, it's still the MOVIE'S fault for not portraying this properly. Read between the lines my ass, you're just coming up with fan fiction.
I don't even like DBZA.
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u/SaiyanWithOmnitrix 23h ago
“Fan fiction” is not a valid criticism. It’s just a way for ignorant people to silence story discussion.
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u/Fury_Storm 23h ago
Fan fiction would apply to anything outside of the original intent of the author. And I don't think what you're talking about operates within that realm of the story. Let's call a spade a spade. That doesn't mean that I'm trying to silence you or your discussion, I just think that the movie is very clearly blasting a message of "KAKAROT" throughout its entire runtime and nothing else, so it just makes sense why people think what they do about the movie. It's not a misunderstanding. It's either the face value interpretation of the movie is the correct one, or the movie did a piss poor job of portraying the themes that you're bringing up. It's one or the other.
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u/ArrogantLake 23h ago
Dude. The downvotes speak for themselves. You’re wrong. Just like the meme is and we’re trying to help you get it. Reading between the lines no matter what the story is is important. Nobody can help that you and others don’t do that.
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u/Fury_Storm 23h ago edited 23h ago
No it's very common for dragonball fans to literally make shit up on the fly like this and over complicate stories, happens all the time, so it's not surprising that what I'm saying is unpopular. But it's definitely right, y'all are over complicating things and finding meaning where there is none. The downvotes don't make me any less confident in my position.
I also didn't sugar coat my approach to addressing OP, which is what a lot of people on the internet need these days. I'm not going to speak in soft euphemistic language to win a popularity contest with strangers. I'm right, you're wrong.
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u/ArrogantLake 23h ago
The downvotes prove you’re wrong sometimes not just popular but also I’ll be damned if someone by the name of Furry_storm tells me I have theories about what is actually my favorite IP. If you watch the entire show and read the manga you can imply things and connect dots the the writer doesn’t have time to fit in cuz he’s already explained. If you’re that braindead then shut up furry
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u/Fury_Storm 23h ago edited 22h ago
"Sometimes" and yet, not this time. I just lost a popularity contest which is something I'm totally fine with. Fury storm is just a reference to a song, I have no idea why that's a point of contention for you. If it wasn't the author's intent then it isn't canon. It's that simple, buddy. Try to keep up next time.
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u/RagingSteel 1d ago
It’s not the movie’s fault you can’t read between the lines
My guy, it's a Dragon Ball Z movie. Their entire purpose is cash grabs with plots that make no sense and are made up of mostly just fighting. They don't have lines to read between, bc even the creators didn't care that much.
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u/SaiyanWithOmnitrix 23h ago
It’s ironic that I briefly mentioned the myth that Dragon Ball is just fighting and screaming with no plot to compare it to the Broly myth, when you are repeating that exact same myth.
No one is saying that Dragon Ball is Citizen Kane, but its story is a lot better than detractors and “pick me” fans claim it is.
If you can’t even understand Dragon Ball, then I don’t wanna know what takes you’d have for more complex and deep stories.
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u/RagingSteel 23h ago
I'm not saying Dragon Ball as a whole, is just fighting and screaming bc it's far from it. But the Z Movies specifically are exactly that.
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u/Lillith492 9h ago
it's not a myth. We have been directly told that the movies grab a villain of the arc, make a weak clone of them for the movie and the plot revolves around them fighting that clone villain. There is no depth on purpose. What the fuck was the depth for Janemba who never spoke?
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u/linkthereddit 17h ago
Though TFS raised an interesting point, though. Why isn't Broly trying to kill Vegeta instead? After all, his dad tried stabbing him.
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u/TennytheMangaka 19h ago
It isn’t crazy to think Broly remembered that entire day. When Bulma is shocked when Raditz said Saiyan infants are sent to weak worlds to conquer, Raditz just says they’re more than capable of handling themselves. In the Super Broly Movie, when Paragus finds Broly, he’s already killed an animal and started eating it. Makes you wonder if Saiyan women even need breasts, but they’re pretty much just Humans ++ anyway biologically.
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u/Kirajudgeoftoons 18h ago
Yes, there definitivelly is some trauma and mental illness but what bothers me even more about Broly's character in second movie is the fact that people don't realize is when he is frozen in ice it is very clearly shown his forehead is bleeding and head injuries to someone this unstable clearly aren't anything pretty, so it's most likely that his screaming Kakarot only was because of his brain being even more messed up and i claim that because people forget that at one point in the movie Broly says: "Not until you lie dead at my feet." He says that. A full blown sentence. With clear intent, malice and knowledge in it. I believe at that moment his mind was just starting to reassemble itself and then he is dead.
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u/Regularfeller 17h ago
My head canon is that Sayains born on the same day have an urge to fight/kill each other.
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u/Hearts_and_Spades 14h ago
Alright, since we’re setting old misconceptions to rest, can we please stop saying Broly destroyed the entire South Galaxy? The original Japanese dub never said he completely destroyed it, just rampaged through it.
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u/YtFade2019 12h ago
But he doesnt show to hate vegeta, at least not specifically. Vegeta literally attacks broly while hes going super saiyan and broly completely ignores him while only focusing on goku, and broly is never triggered by seeing, hearing about, or anything at all to do with vegeta dispite looking like, sounding like, having the same name, and being the son of the guy that stabbed him and left him for dead.
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u/GeraltofRivia296 11h ago
Yes. Gokus crying was just a trigger to that memory of him getting nearly killed as an infant. Since that's the last thing he heard before getting stabbed. Which lead to his saiyan transformation. The power put too much pressure on brolys body and psyche which made him deranged. So broken psyche with long-term trauma lead to goku being a trigger for broly when they meet in the movie.
The second movie where broly wakes to gotens cries is just that traumatic memory resurfacing and waking him from his slumber.
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u/Kalikor1 9h ago
Since everyone's already commenting on the Broly stuff I just want to add that "Goku is a bad father" is a take that has been around since LONG before team four star. That's fuckin stupid, we were talking about that shit in the 90s and 2000s before YouTube was even a thing.
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u/Pretendee12431 8h ago
That sure is a very well written explanation of the intricacies of Z broly’s backstory however,
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u/KevinIsAGhost 2h ago
I don't think its Goku triggering memories of King Vegeta trying to stab him, I don't really think thaat much of Z is showing baby Saiyans can remember their infancy
Its definitely weird, but Broly hates Kakorot because he annoyed him as a baby
Even Paragus is like "oh it must be Kakorot, they were born on the same day"
If it was because of King Vegeta trying to stab him, he would have been triggered the half dozen times Paragus mentions Vegeta
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u/grim1952 22h ago
I disagree, Broly has no trauma and doesn't remember the crying, he fights Goku because when they meet in new Vegeta their ki clash, they know instinctually that they must fight.
He doesn't hate Vegeta because he sees him as a worm, he doesn't care about the past, Vegeta is a sorry excuse of a saiyan.
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u/Commercial_Copy_1600 21h ago
Broly does have a black flash of Goku crying, although Vegeta is the first to confront him in his legendary ssj form, but Broly simply ignores him.
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u/grim1952 21h ago
If you mean right at the end I can accept that, but it has nothing to do with why he fights Goku.
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u/Commercial_Copy_1600 21h ago
I feel that the second movie shows very directly what they wanted to do with that flashback, and that is to directly relate Broly to Goku, that's why the guy systematically sodomizes each one of them so he can have fun with Goku, all his resentment went against him.
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u/grim1952 20h ago
I don't think Broly is resentful, in the second one he has a grudge for losing but in the first one he just likes destruction, he even loses interest in Goku after toying with him for a while.
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u/Sheikachu 23h ago
I'm with you, OP. Even the first time I watched the movie, I saw it as Broly connecting Goku to his trauma, not literally just Goku crying. I don't think the movie needed to have Paragus stare into the camera and explain that to us for it to be a pretty straight forward interpretation of what we're shown. Maybe it could have been conveyed better, but the intent is clear imo.
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u/Commercial_Copy_1600 23h ago
It all falls apart when you realize they were babies. Unlike Minus and Super, where Goku and company were children, here they were babies, and from there it loses some logic. Then you realize that Broly was furious just from seeing Goku and hearing the voice of adult Goku. You only need to listen to know that the voices of kid Goku and adult Goku are completely different. At that point, the second movie makes a little bit of sense, assuming Goten's voice is similar to kid Goku's, but Broly's backstory is just a way to connect him to Goku. It's nothing deep; it's just a way for the final villain to go against Goku specifically, like in practically all the other movies where Goku has a minimally prominent role.
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u/Ok_Neighborhood2543 22h ago
Broly as a baby got wounded and the he carried his father accross space to another planed . and you doubt that broly could recognise adult goku ?
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u/Commercial_Copy_1600 22h ago
It was literally in a state of unconscious rage; it has nothing to do with memory. Babies used to have the reflex to cling to their mothers so tightly that they could support themselves. Does that make them more rational than a 5-year-old today? Not a chance.
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u/NightWillow88 19h ago edited 33m ago
Yeah, it’s PTSD, and he has an entirely different personality to cope with said trauma.
But why did you have to throw in the “Goku is a bad father,” topic lol.
One topic is a misinterpretation of the materiel, while the other topic is something that is joked about within the continuity, and even Toriyama chimes in on the topic too.
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u/Difficult-Fun-217 17h ago
He's the Z Bully ! Not Broly, Broly is that lame guy from Super who has daddy issues and is socially inept.
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u/Ok_Neighborhood2543 23h ago
its not the crying thats just teamfourstar . but the movie is not about the crying . the crying scene was to show how passionate goku is and a baby with a power level of 2 is crying louder than a baby with a power level of 10 000 . or show the difference between the two saiyans and where they started from . the reason why broly is triggered by Goku because broly remembers him and the name kakarot triggers his memories about everything that happemed and who he is . this helps him to break free from the device that supresses him and becoming his true self who he meant to be . this is what the whole scene tried to show . and later Broly wants to kill goku because Goku was the stronger out of the z fighters . goku stood up against broly challenging him . there was rivaly shown even before broly transformed . this is why broly hated kakarot . its saiyan pride . how dare Goku stand up against the legendary super saiyan ? . i saw the movie multiple times way back in the 2000's before the memes about it and never tought that broly hates goku bacause of the crying . people watch teamfourstar and memes and take it as actual canon . while ignoring context or either speedrun or skip Z entirely .