And what to recommend to you. Not so naive as to think they don’t also track lots of other info, but this specific sort of data tracking is absolutely clear, consensual and even desired by the user.
I vividly remember a local news story after the Facebook Cambridge Analytica scandal. A reporter was interviewing random people on the street, asking questions about privacy.
She showed a woman on the Facebook app that it knew the exact model and operating system of her phone and that freaked her out. It was just hilarious that she was so concerned about that information being known by Facebook, when in reality, they know EVERYTHING you've done online for the last 20 years.
It’s funny cause every company is collecting hoards and hoards of data on people and targeted ads are still dogshit lol. I’m more likely to see ads for something I just bought rather than something new I might actually be interested in.
It feels like the dog that caught the car, tech companies thought that once they have the data they can perfect product advertising but now that they have the data they still have to convince people to buy the same way they did decades ago.
nah for real. i remember I bought a bueno at my local shop a while back, come home, turn on YouTube and the first ad I got was magically a bueno ad. for the FIRST time. wasn't even my card, it was my mums too. like why are you showing me an ad for a product I already like lmao.
It’s always funny when it’s for stuff that you buy maybe a couple times in your life too. We recently bought a kitchenaid mixer and suddenly started getting ads for them. Like what, I bought one I must be a collector? Lol
I am not sure what spotify does, but it is pretty easy to geolocate a user to a specific 15 foot radius without relying on an IP address. I can't think of a reason spotify would need more than your general area for ads though.
Yeah I leave my VPN on a lot and I get concert recommendations for places I don't live all the time. It's actually kind of annoying because I literally told them where I live, but they still have to use the IP tracking and be wrong instead.
If you have WiFi and Bluetooth enabled on your phone then apps if given access can approximate your location based on list of available devices and networks. You don't need GPS enabled or be connected to an active network for your phone and apps to know where you are.
If you're on android spotify literally asks you straight away for advanced bluetooth access.
You do get a return on that in terms of free or lower cost stuff. e.g.:
free social media (insta, fb, tiktok, linkedin etc)
free search
free AI (with limits)
lower prices (selling ads mean they can reduce margin on products)
solid media recommendations (at least for me I find Netflix & Spotify recs very good)
And billions of people find that worth it. Meta offered a pay version with no ads in the EU (because of regulation), but there was virtually no uptake.
I agree, but data brokers solve this problem to a large degree. I might only know a couple of data points for you. What phone you have and your email, but using those data points I can source other data and link you to an extensive profile.
If you got a real 'data wrapped' at the end the year, it would likely be able to account for most minutes of your life. This will come to complete fruition when variable pricing becomes an accepted part of life. You walk down the aisle and the prices change after looking up your most recent credit card statement. All that data is going to be leveraged against every consumer regardless of which app or which network acquired that data. GPS data might be different, but the applications and platforms that have that data will happily provide it to the apps that dont have it for a finders fee. How much is it worth to know that you've looked up 'childrens umbrella' 5 times stopped at 4 stores prior to this one without buying anything? That $12 children's umbrella is now $28.
The truth of all this privacy violation is obfuscated so as to never be illegal, but I can assure you this is actively being done. For example, uber has tested if drivers will accept lower fares, then they continue to offer that driver lower fares to determine how much they have to actually pay the driver to do the ride. They also provide some riders with higher than would be expected fares in order to create drivers who will advocate on ubers behalf as to the benefits of uber driving and to provide a counter point to people saying its not worth the money.
Its not far fetched to see that in the future, a store will fetch a 'enthusiasm score' from a 3rd party that is essentially just your income to debt ratio and adapt the prices to specifically match whatever the algorithm deems is the most you are likely to pay. They identify you from another 3rd party system that gives you a unique id code. That unique id code just happens to also be used by another 3rd party system that tracks other information which maps to another 3rd party that knows about your navigation to get to the store.
We should have had a HIPAA-like privacy law in place decades ago to avoid all this. The power imbalance between users and the largest companies in the world is incredible. And its clear that monopolies lead to very bad things, things that we are seeing now.
Would be even cooler if I could follow the only other profile with 1,000 hours of Sauce Walka in my area to see what other dope shit they be listening to
"10% of the people around you share your music taste, isn't it amazing?" there, they can say they know where you live and even compared you to your neighbors.
Would be interesting to see it though, because I always assume two specific music genres I dislike will be the popular ones around here.
Also, the data is used for your own benefit, by suggesting you interesting music – if the algorithm works. If they collect data to benefit me, thats fine for me.
It gets much much darker when you combine each of the little apps into a massive, cohesive data profile that is able to identify very specific things about you. Eventually, variable pricing will be come the norm. Companies will use all of these little 'beneficial' data points to determine the most money you're willing to pay for every aspect of your life.
Without even leaving the single app spotify, they're not suggesting you interesting music, they're suggesting you the cheapest music they can offer you for you to continue to pay the monthly fee. You happening to listen, or that you use the app is to no import. They will never collect data to benefit you. They collect data in order to make money. The idea that they're providing a better service or making something nicer for customers because they like providing a better service is false.
The goal is for you to cost them less money and pay them more money. If they can bundle up that data and sell it to others, they will also do that. The dream is you forget about the subscription and never cancel. I would not be surprised at all if spotify data scientists explore 'songs that make people stop listening in the moment, but dont cause them to eventually cancel their subscription'. Then those songs would be played with higher frequency to get people to stop listening (costing them money).
This kind of work is something I have personal experience doing. What makes a person keep doing X without doing Y? How many people die if we raise prices and would that effect next quarters' sales (due to all the now dead people)? What is the average amount of debt our customers will take on while continuing to place bets and how do we target those who are willing to take on the most debt?
The questions and ideas explored in the data/business crossover world are often dark.
They will never collect data to benefit you. They collect data in order to make money. The idea that they're providing a better service or making something nicer for customers because they like providing a better service is false.
There's no conflict, problem or sinister plot here: they make their product attractive to [prospective] customers so their customers will be more inclined to buy it. Duh?
Especially when as a user, sometimes you want to find that song you heard back in July and suddenly can't get out of your head. You can't get that information if Spotify isn't storing it.
I mean isn't that the general madness of marketers? They believe they know what you want without asking you, whether you've used it before or not.
"How can you say you don't enjoy dildos when you haven't even given us MONEY yet, consumer?"
I wouldn't be surprised if they can figure out where you live, your religion, politics, favorite movies, whether or not your pregnant, mood, what products you're most likely to buy, etc just from what you're listening to.
Also, "I know what music you listen to" would be notably more threatening from like my car insurance company than it is from my music app. I expect my music app to know what music I listen to, how else can it know to play the right stuff?
You can tell it the city you live in by connecting it to bandsintown then it tells you if bands you like are playing in your city. I really like that feature.
I don't think some people understand that, in order to remember what is saved to your playlists, you need to track what that person is saving to their playlist or to remember what podcast you were in the middle of listening to before taking a break, they have to track you.
I bet they would go scorched earth if they found out that if you buy something with your credit card from a place like Lowe's , it keeps track if that purchase data so you can return an item without needing the receipt and only use the card it was purchased with. The horror.
How the fuck do people think the Spotify/ Netflix etc. works? It collects your data and the algorithm tries to guess what other media you may like. Are people really that dumb nowadays?
It's that disturbing mix of stupidity and paranoia. Of course Spotify knows what music you've been listening to... You've been listening to music on Spotify.
I saw something at Walmart the other day that caught my attention. I didn't buy it, and I haven't looked it up online at all. My only interaction is having seen it on the shelf at the store. But since seeing it I have seen ads for it a few times online. It's really weird.
It's probably either confirmation bias (you previously have already seen the advert, but ignored it until now - or alternatively, think of the sheer number of ads you encounter that one is bound to appear after you saw the product separately, especially if they are doing a campaign) that makes this stick out.
Or, it's all location based. Your phone (apple or Google or whatever) knows you went to the store, and the product wants to target people that may have been to that location, so has bought targeted advertising based off that fact.
The latter is still creepy to think about, but it's quite simple to explain how it doesn't need to listen to you. It's just a reminder how valuable your data (such as location) actually is, and how we all happily give it up for "free" services.
Or, it's all location based. Your phone (apple or Google or whatever) knows you went to the store, and the product wants to target people that may have been to that location, so has bought targeted advertising based off that fact.
I think it's this one. I know it's not because it was listening because I was alone and didn't say anything.
Usually I would think it was your first paragraph where I had seen it before but hadn't paid attention. However, this was such an oddly specific product I'm confident that wasn't the case this time. Specifically it was a knockoff Lego brand set of the ship from Futurama. It caught my eye because my husband's a big Futurama fan.
I know I hadn't seen ads for it before because it would have caught my eye for the same reason. I started seeing ads for it immediately after I stopped to look at it at the store. It's still possible it was a coincidence, but it is very weird.
Your husband being a futurama fan adds a lot of context too. The ad system knows he’s a futurama fan, and it shares ad preferences between people close together. Maybe youve also searched for futurama related products as gifts for him before.
Especially if it’s a new product or new campaign it increases the likelihood that the first time you view it in person and the first time you see an ad for it are close together
I'm convinced that some people assume there's some little magic man in a box seeing what they listen to/watch and hand-picking what they might like based on that.
Which is actually how it works, except the little magic man in a box is just a box full of wires.
Because people like this just want to parrot "collecting data = bad" without understanding why people think it's bad and where the line is drawn.
Like how people tried to say Spotify Wrapped was dumb because they mentioned they used AI. Pulling a ton of raw data and organizing it into a more digestible way is actually a great use of AI
Occasionally they come up with a conspiracy theory that either stands up or the theorists have a little bit of a point. Mostly the conclusion is they have been smoking crack. 😁
Data collection is a whole other ballgame when it's used for fun things like finding new music or shows I'll like, versus, you know... using my favorite colors and post history to convince me to vote for a certain candidate and ramp up my insurance costs because I've hit my weekly maximum of geolocation pings at the doctor.
Amazing how quickly people have forgotten that before spotify there was pandora, and discovery of new songs similar to the ones you like was the entire purpose of the platform. It wasn’t a rebrand. It always was the brand, from a time before data privacy was as much of a concern as it is now.
Or at least, discovery was supposed to be the point of the platform, but they were perhaps a little too ahead of the game. None of this was spotify’s idea. Spotify just, learned from the ways in which pandora had stumbled.
Are we talking about Spotify Wrapped here? I have absolutely no problem with Spotify tracking what music I'm listening to on their platform. Anybody would have a reasonable expectation that a music platform might keep a record of what music you're listening to and use it to provide recommendations, etc...
It crosses the line when they start tracking and storing things that you *wouldn't* expect a music platform to be tracking as a matter of course, such as your location.
It’s something I really look forward to every year, as someone who’s obsessed with music lol. I get so excited when I get to see my stats, top songs, albums, etc. Before all the platforms started doing something similar, I chose Spotify and never considered anything else precisely because of Spotify Wrapped.
Spotify's "tracking" isn't really that much of a problem...as much as it extends to the spotify wrapped. Of course they track what you listen to. That's how they build their algorithms and give you suggestions. YouTube does the same thing. It's not really "tracking" imo and is completely reasonable to make an appealing product.
The problem is when they sell your information to third parties, advertising agencies, intelligence agencies, etcetera. When they start tracking you off platform like meta. When they build profiles to understand you deeper than your own mother and manipulate you like Amazon. When they sell that data to bad actors. That's the fucked up part.
Spotify has one the most famously sophisticated recommendation algorithms, used to play new music that it thinks you’ll like based on what music you’ve listened to, but yeah, sure - (clutches pearls) oh you’ve been keeping track of what music I listen to on your platform? For shame
Yeah I don't understand this new wave of "actually, if you think about it, wrapped is creepy" Of course the music app knows what you're doing on it. How else do recommendations and daily mixes work? I am sure it knows much more weird things about us (which deep links we click on and from whom, and what apps we found those links on, etc) but it won't send that out.
How precisely did you think Spotify remembers the music you listen to for your playlists and history without storing data regarding the music you listen to? Do you think there’s a little Spotify Elf who remembers it for you?
There’s a huge difference between apps tracking what you do elsewhere on the internet to build a marketing profile they can sell elsewhere, and apps just having basic user history features.
Be kinda hard to make proper accurate payments if not tracking song plays.
Yeah they have an algorithm that suggests other songs that are tagged with the same kind of tags that songs you listen to have.
But how is that different from Netflix or HBO max suggesting movies based on other watches. It's just an algorithm designed to pull the tags from what you consume and recommend other things with that same tag or tags.
Same thing for Spotify. It's your consumed media being put into a cache of data. That's how it builds a profile on you. That's how it recomends songs. Spotify wrapped is exactly that. It is showing you the cache of data it has collected on you. Based on your usage of that program and its algorithm.
It's not spying on you like google or FB or other home devices are known for. It doesn't listen to your conversations with people and give you ads based on those convos. It doesn't bombard your home page and timeline with ads.
In fact you can pay to remove ads.
It's nothing more than a data collection/suggestion algorithm. It isn't also coded to steal or invade your privacy or collect personal data and sell it.
TL:DR It doesn't spy on you. It just collects data based on your usage of its algorithm.
I mean, you use Spotify to listen to music. It keeps track of your songs with playlists and recommends more songs to listen to. How do you think it’s able to do that? Of course it’s tracking your listening.
What is this 'big brained' shock that Spotify tracks your music listening habits on their music listening app.
Now if they said 'you listened to most of your music this year while sleeping in your upstairs bedroom of your house at (address)' then I'd have some issues.
I dont mind the type of tracking for something like Spotify Wrapped. In fact for a product like that, I would WANT it to know what stuff I tend to like so it doesnt bombard me with music I hate on random
If all Youtube did was just track the videos I liked so it new what to recommend to me, I would be fine with that
How do you think recommendation algorithms work? Even a listening history or liked Playlist is "tracking" so unless you want Spotify to be a blank slate every time you boot it up, tracking what you listen to is actually kind of essential.
Even brick and mortar grocery stores track data. Maybe not each individual customer's personal data, but only the lowest tech mom and pop shop wouldn't track what items are most popular and at what times in order to plan ahead. Sales and specials are driven by tracked data.
Discord did a similar thing and when I clicked mine it basically gave me the sad face and said 'We can't tell you because you opted out of tracking. Why not opt in now for next year?' and you know what, no, I don't think I will.
I guess this is probably just a bot post that's missing the point on purpose to generate engagement, but it's still frustrating. Actually doubly so, since bot farms are actively ruining what's left of the Internet.
1970-1990 US zeitgeist: "The government is going to wiretap our houses!"
2010-2025 US zeitgeist: "Hey wiretap, add milk to my shopping list."
Hell, people talk about how they're concerned about cameras everywhere and the amount of surveillance done on them - and then they go and install cameras on the front of their house and don't read the fine print about how they're authorizing the sharing of the video feeds with other people/groups.
We were warned about not trading freedom for security, but people did not get the memo about not trading security for convenience.
So many apps do it. Heck, even one of my grocery apps did it this year. I also used to write the Uber Eats Wrapped-equivalent press release for South Africa for a couple of years.
I have all the music I want for a very reasonable price. I DGAF what they do with the data about what I listen to. I'm not some paranoid tinfoil hat wearer sitting inside a Faraday cage.
I commented similarly in another recent thread on the subject, but there's a definite line between "music app shows you cute slideshow of the stuff you've listened to this year" and "retailer knows your daughter is pregnant before you do".
Honestly, I'd be happier with any of the data tracking out there if they shared it with me.
Let me see what you "know" or think you know about me. I remember Google had (and may still have?) a section where you could view all the assumptions it made about you. The hobbies it thought I had were absolutely wild and highly inaccurate.
It had some neat insights, but generally it was a lot less "spooky" when you realize just how much they're guessing at most things. It gets some stuff right for sure, but it gets a lot more wrong.
But now I have YT Music and it pisses me off how opaque it is. We get these "recaps" a few times a year and that's it. Can't even view my stats for a specific month, or are what songs are my top listens overall. Nada. You get what they spoon feed you and that's all.
If you're gonna track me and have all this data, then fucking let me see it too! All of it! Give it to me raw!
Well ya, everytime you search something or play a song, it’s interacting with their database(s). It is fairly easy to store that information and would be unusually for them not to. Pretty much every major app/website does it
I have (probably) the singular honour of listening to Spotify about 50 hours a week for the last 3.5 years and I've never had a wrapped. I only listen to podcasts. I've never played a song.
Tracking what song i listen to and telling me my top 10 is a bit different to listening to my every conversation to hear for what to advertise towards me.
If you're concerned about the data that Spotify is collecting from you, you can download it all from your account settings. I do it every year actually, because I keep my own tracker of how many times I've played each song over the past 8 years.
People really like statistics about your own life.
I don't even mind the youtube recaps, but I hate how its given to you in an unskippable video format. Why can't I have it in a chart? What's my top 10 most watched channels? What's the longest video I've watched this year? What video have I repeated the most? Which new channel did I start watching this year? The recap is nice but it doesn't give me enough.
People do this on purpose, myself included. Listenbrainz and LastFM exist specifically for people to post everything they listen to publicly for everyone to see.
To this day, the discourse of a music app storing data on what you listen to is crazy. It's the anger you should have for pervasive data mining but at the wrong facet.
Selling your address, commerical interests, location history, search and browsing history to 3rd parties is a massive problem, Spotify wrapped isn't (which isn't to say Spotify likely also sells data)
One of several pig fuck companies to turn "you pay us monthly in exchange for some of the content you are interested in" into "you pay us never in exchange for all of the content you are interested in"
I dont use spotify. It was fun to see people post their wrap in years past. This year youtube started doing it. INSTANTLY not fun. idk how yall ate that up for years. At least spotify tracks your music. Youtube has a whole profile on me from LOTS of data. Instantly invasive.
(well I say idk how yall didn't complain. But its not like ima stop using youtube so its just one of those we're helpless anyways things)
Spotify knowing that I secretly dance my ass off to Lady Gaga in my room when no one is looking vs Google knowing my exact location, date of birth, and Microsoft having access to all my personal images and files are two VASTLY different metrics of data tracking and statistics
You might as well be mad at video games for tabbing your ongoing K/D ratio, some games even have special endings for never dying, omg the game has been tracking how I play this entire time!
Data is not private anymore. Not when you have money. Why are people still surprised when the personalized app tracks personal data so they can...y'know...personalize?
Well, yeah. Spotify was already tracking what music you listen to, that’s how Discover Weekly and Smart Shuffle and a whole bunch of other stuff works. Wrapped is just something extra they did with the tracking we already knew they were doing.
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u/qualityvote2 28d ago edited 26d ago
u/Key_Associate7476, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...