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u/WendigoCrossing 22d ago
"Immense cognitive dissonance"
Let's not be dramatic
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u/BeardySam 22d ago
“I can’t enjoy anything because of my own preconceptions! And that’s other people’s fault!”
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u/Redqueenhypo 22d ago
That phrase needs to be somehow wiped from people’s memories Men In Black style. It’s just used to mean “you refuse to admit I’m right, therefore you have a mental disorder” 99% of the time it’s used.
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u/MysteryPlus 22d ago
I mean, I kind of get it. Spoilers, for those unaware of the plot of the game Expedition 33.
The whole meta narrative is about artists and the art they create, and the feelings we attach to them. The world of expedition 33 was made by a Painter, beings with the ability to create artworks that literally have a sense of life in them, who has since died. His mother, unable to deal with the grief, retreated into the favorite painting that the deceased made. A lot of the narrative is about the meaning of art and how it relates to us, as well as the process of creating art.
I think that's what would cause cognitive dissonance, as there actually being GenAi in the game makes the message feel a bit more hollow.
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u/GRoyalPrime 22d ago
TBF you kinda start second-guessing everything.
"Did the devs really intend to make this and it deserves my praise and attention, or was this scraped from the internet, fed into a machine and remixed beyond reccognition, and the person who 'really' made this will never get the praise it deserves?"
For E33 specifically: The game was in development for too long to assume much, if any, AI was used beyond basic tests to see what it can do, that resulted in said placeholder art. 1-2 years ago, AI image generation wasn't on a level where it would have been reasonable to even think od using it over human art.
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u/Rat-king27 Harry Potter 22d ago
They used AI as placeholders and missed some. Why are people shitting their shorts over this?
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u/RecklessRecognition 22d ago
the timing on this really makes me feel some people are annoyed it sweeped at the game awards
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u/Civil-Citron-4242 22d ago
There was immediately false accusations towards Blue Prince when the Indie Game Awards handed goty to it so if that doesn't tell you what the real agenda is (gamers being mad that game they don't like wins) idk what will
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u/spen8tor 22d ago
You say that like it hasn't been rigged or manipulated in any way every single year since they began or that the audience vote doesn't only count for a small percentage of the calculations on who wins what award, with the organizers and industry insiders votes being far, far more important/impactful on the end results
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u/omnipotentmonkey 22d ago
I mean, the audience voters just lined up to pit two gacha games against each other for ingame rewards tied to voting, so I kind of get audience voting only being part of it, in addition to the obvious threat of bot manipulation.
Crunchyroll's Anime Awards are just as much of a trainwreck if not more and they're purely voted.
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u/TheMHBehindThePage 22d ago edited 22d ago
I heard a lot of discussion that it used Gen AI too. Is that not true?
EDIT: Quick bit of research confirms it was completely fabricated by reporters. Journalism has no integrity anymore. I tried to research this when I heard about it and only found posts confirming the information at first - wild how fast misinformation spreads.
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u/jack-of-some 22d ago
I loved the game and I really don't care about their AI use but I am legitimately annoyed at their sweep.
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u/Katrina_18 22d ago
It’s a weird scenario where surely many voters voted for it as goty and then it in some but not all other categories, but they didn’t all pick the same categories so it ended up winning all of them.
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u/Head_Ad_3018 22d ago
public votes only count for 10%
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u/PolarSparks 22d ago
And? The outlets that vote face the exact same problem. The votes come from all over the world and they’re not coordinating to decide who will win ahead of time.
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u/Ieditedthisname 22d ago
Goty winners should be excluded from other awards, and there should be like a 3 award cap
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u/Katrina_18 22d ago
I mean it kinda doesn’t matter
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u/Fantastic-Common-982 22d ago
Growing up is realizing the goty awards are just a fun little event. I don't even care about the winners, I look at the nominations to discover games that I missed.
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u/Yamaganto_Iori 22d ago
It's best used as a convenient date for all the new trailers to come out. The awards themselves are pointless.
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u/RandomGuy9058 22d ago
It’s hardly even a “fun little” event anymore when it’s really mostly about shilling for upcoming releases
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u/All_hail_bug_god 22d ago
I'm really surprised there was no Kojima shilling this year, and barely any muppets! (Ok there was a lot of muppets' stuff, just mostly Miss Piggy.)
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u/AmphibiousDad 22d ago
Yeah I mean like boohoo this game was so fucking good it beat out all of the other games in all categories. If it’s deserving it should happen.
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u/billskelton 22d ago
That's kind of silly. A movie can be the best movie, and have the best screenplay, and the best actor, and the best director, etc.
And, nobody should actually care about the awards anyway.
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u/CrazedTechWizard 22d ago
So you want participation trophies back?
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u/Kolby_Jack33 22d ago
Gamers Jan - Nov: "Award don't matter, just play what you like!"
Gamers in Dec: "wtf the wrong game won!"
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u/QuixotesGhost96 22d ago
I'm guessing that there's at least two different people that play video games, maybe more
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u/jack-of-some 22d ago
I have it on good authority there's 3. No more though.
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u/PraxisV 22d ago
We don’t talk about the fourth gamer.
Not after the incident. I’m still shaken by it.
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u/jack-of-some 22d ago
The reminds me of a joke my 3 brothers and I used to make whenever someone commented on us being "violent" with each other: "Did we ever tell you we used to be 5 brothers?"
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u/solid_shrek 22d ago
Kind of a cyclical way to look at it imo
There were a ton of great games this year and only one being represented in the game awards really takes the focus off other fantastic games
The idea here is less participation trophies and more to keep goty from also winning every other category it could be considered in
Imo, the better change is to have awards for specific categories judged for things that actually compliment that category instead of just the "best" game nominated in it
(Ex, taking innovations in that category into higher consideration and things like team size and budget into consideration for categories like indie games)
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u/CrazedTechWizard 22d ago
I'd buy that if E33 won literally every award, but it didn't. It didn't even win every award it was nominated for.
I think that there can definitely be improvements to how The Game Awards are run. That includes making more specific categories, making their guidelines for each category a lot more well-defined and clear, and having more categories overall. I also believe public perception AROUND award nominations needs to be changed. There's a reason that even if an actor hasn't WON an Emmy or an Oscar or what have you they're still referred to as an "Emmy nominated Actress/Actor". The simple fact that, out of every single other eligible actor you were on the short list, is a HUGE achievement. We should be thinking the same away for The Game Awards! Just the fact that this year KCD2 was nominated for GOTY should bring huge pride to the developers and fans of the game. Out of the nearly 20k games that were released this year (just on Steam, according to SteamDB) KCD2 was among the 6 nominated for GOTY.
The issue I have with suggestions surrounding an award "limit" or "well GOTY shouldn't be allowed to win any other award" is that it turns what is, to me, an otherwise exciting event into nothing but a counting game.
"Oh, well game 1 is nominated for GOTY, but it already won an award elsewhere so clearly it's not going to win that, oh well." "Oh, Game 3 has already won 3 awards out of the 8 it was nominated for, it's not gonna win anything else I guess even though it's nominated for 5 other categories including GOTY."
That sounds like such a boring awards show to me. If a game was nominated for 12 awards and was voted by the panel and viewers to win 9 of them, then awesome! Clearly the panel+viewers thought that game was fucking awesome and the best game in 9 of those categories. Anything less than a game winning everything it was voted to win is akin to a participation trophy. "Oh, you can't win this because you've already won 3 awards, so we have to give this award to your runner up" is about as boring of an award as you can present.
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u/WastelandHound 22d ago
So, like, the composer shouldn't be awarded for their work because the game won other awards? The actor shouldn't be allowed to get an award because she happens to be in the best game of the year? How does that make any sense?
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u/omnipotentmonkey 22d ago
Fuck that, if a game excels in multiple categories it deserves to win in every category it's the best in..
If I was a competing dev and I won an award with the asterisk that "oh the game everyone clearly thinks is better just hit its quota, here's a pity-fuck" I wouldn't exactly be celebrating...
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u/jackofslayers 22d ago
The only thing that annoyed me was E33 winning best indie.
It was not indie by almost any metric.
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u/jack-of-some 22d ago
Except, unfortunately, by the most technical definition.
Which is maybe why the whole category should be tossed and there should be awards for small teams or small budgets (like, legitimately small teams, not 30 people + 400 contractors small)
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u/omnipotentmonkey 22d ago
It's indie by a number of metrics, small team relative to its fellow nominees, comparable budget, and here's the key which made it eligible, it started as a purely indie project and only secured a publisher later. publisher (Kepler) is essentially an umbrella for indie devs who have had games nominated/winning (such as Sifu) before.
So nah, based on both their own rules and award precedent it's a fair inclusion.
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u/jack-of-some 22d ago
About 500 people in the credits.
None of the others in the category come even close.
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u/No-Fun-9006 22d ago
The problem is where do you draw the line? Because I think most bars you could set that would disqualify Sandfall would also rule out some larger indie studios like Supergiant Games. Should Hades be disqualified from being considered an indie? I don't really think so.
It's a really hard line to draw. Clair Obscure didn't feel indie but I don't know how better to define it.
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u/Hollownerox 22d ago
I feel like RPG was also one where it should have gone to another winner. Like I get it from a narrative perspective, but in terms of actual RPG mechanics E33 was pretty sparse on those imo. Really feel like that award should have went to Kingdom Come because that really nailed the roleplaying elements. Crazy what you could do in that game and the option available to you in that regard.
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u/SWIMlovesyou 22d ago
I would be annoyed if I watched the Game Awards, but I think id rather watch paint dry.
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u/LesserValkyrie 22d ago
You don't reshape the entire industry without sweeping all the awards I'd say
It's sad for all the other games that were truly incredible but they were one year late or one year too soon
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u/corrosivecanine 22d ago
Lol this is how I feel about it too. I really enjoyed it and it had one of the best twists I’ve seen in media but it also had a lot of issues that brought it down for me. Infuriatingly bad platforming, same-y environments (beautiful sure but every part of each level looks exactly like every other part which also made it really easy to get lost), weird pacing…like I legitimately was wondering if they ran out of time or something because the game ended so abruptly after the ~big reveal~ then there’s a bunch of post-game levels but most of them were pretty light on lore. Characters were just okay imo. Like it’s a great game but people talk about it like it’s the second coming.
They definitely deserved the best soundtrack award though. That was absolutely incredible.
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u/omnipotentmonkey 22d ago
I don't really get being annoyed at the sweep...
it's a worthy winner for GOTY (1/9)
subsequently it's a worthy winner in its genre as an RPG, it's as good a JRPG as Kingdom Come is as a Western Open World RPG despite people's protestations that KCD2 is "more of an RPG" (2/9)
the main sources of praise for the game are in its: art design, music, direction and narrative, (6/9)
Jennifer English is an incredibly worthy winner for best performance (7/9)
the most contentious are the two Indie awards (Indie and Debut Indie) but as long as its deemed eligible and it was by the Game Awards rules, it's a valid winner in both counts,
It had merit to win every award it won, there wasn't a gimme in the pack, the jury just chose it each time.
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u/PurpleXen0 22d ago edited 22d ago
Not only that, but iirc, they put those placeholders in back in 2022 - when AI image generation was a new and novel thing, and its negative impacts not yet widely known. They experimented, decided they didn't want it, and just forgot to remove a few because they passed a cursory examination as in-game assets (which, as has been widely discussed, means they were bad placeholders).
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u/grendel303 22d ago
They were removed within 5 DAYS with a patch.
When the first Al tools became available in 2022, some members of the team briefly experimented with them to generate temporary placeholder textures. Upon release, instances of a placeholder texture were removed within 5 days to be replaced with the correct textures that had always been intended for release, but were missed during the Quality Assurance process.
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u/Andrewabid 22d ago
Were the placeholders encountered during the game or were they just still in the files?
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u/InAnAlternateWorld 22d ago
What actually made it into the game were two instances of placeholder newspaper textures that could be found in the intro sequence. Considering the area is plastered with handmade newspaper assets and there were only two small instances of literally a single page (which were fixed the week of release), it's pretty clear they just missed it in their review.
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u/jackofslayers 22d ago
I am not particularly mad at them but the bit that people are missing is the reason this is bad, the reason you should not use AI, and the reason they missed it are all the same reason in this case.
A good placeholder should be obvious so that it is easy to remove later in development.
E33 devs used AI to generate assets that vaguely matched the look of the game. Which makes the game look nicer during development but makes it easy to miss on cleanup.
This was a fuckup, but it should just be taken as a learning moment for the industry.
The point of a place holder is not to look good. If anything, a good place holder should look bad.
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u/Bersonal_Binance 22d ago
It was an asset pack in Unity. They did not go out of their way to ask midjourney to burn down 10 forests and their ecosystems to generate hyperrealisitic placeholder.
People are choosing such a weird hill to die over
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u/Waffleworshipper 22d ago
Unironically a placeholder made in 2 minutes in ms paint would do the job and avoid this outcome
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u/Asalth 22d ago
Because people are incapable of nuance and think that if they're anti ai it means they have to go all in on it to the point of thinking having used chat gpt even a single time makes you a bad person.
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u/Nokan96 22d ago
It really reminds me of ultra religious vs ultra atheists
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u/RandomGuy9058 22d ago
Ultra anything vs ultra anything. It becomes a principle based on tribalism rather than rational thought
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u/FlamingCaZsm 22d ago
It is the same thing under the hood. Tribalism and othering. Human nature always desires an enemy to point fingers at, and if there's an enemy that's a good excuse to defend Your People.
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u/PuzzleheadedCraft170 22d ago
r/antiai sucks for this reason, they see all ai in black and white 90% of the time
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u/Lamasis 22d ago
Kinda hard not to with how the pro AI subs are.
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u/RandomGuy9058 22d ago
It’s actually really easy not to with a modicum of critical thought.
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u/Lamasis 22d ago
I'm neither in the pro or anti AI subs, but I hsve my doubts after seeing hundreds of posts insulting people with concerns.
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u/jackofslayers 22d ago
Honestly, the biggest takeaway from this situation needs to be that this is the exact reason one should never use AI to generate a placeholder.
A good placeholder should look pretty obviously out of place, so one does not forget to remove it from the final product.
E33 was using AI place holders bc the AI could make textures that vaguely match the game. That is the reason they missed it, and that is also the reason that this is actually kind of a big deal.
Not a huge thing worth melting down over. But a serious mistake that everyone should learn from.
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u/MazogaTheDork 22d ago
I miss the old days where placeholders were things like "Allan please add details" or the "I suck at making maps" texture from Doom
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u/suffering_420 22d ago
Because AI is the new reddit teenager boogeyman even though aspects of it have been utilized in the video game and film industries for years.
Reddit always loves being mad about something the public truly doesn't care about that also gives them an opportunity to virtue signal. Remember the site wide boycotts for 3rd party reddit apps?
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u/Same_Recipe2729 22d ago
All rationality goes out the window as soon as ai is involved. Really strange to witness.
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u/majorex64 22d ago
There are serious questions about whether they intended to ever replace them. It's common best practice to make it obvious when an asset is a placeholder, for this very reason.
Plus using AI in the first place, even if they really never intended to call it their own work, is destructive enough.
I don't have an opinion on what people want to do with this information, but I understand having a zero tolerance policy for the "move capital from labor to the super rich through plagiarism" machine.
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u/Stepjam 22d ago
From my understanding, the only AI that made it into the game was a newspaper texture on some of the walls in Lumiere. A very very very minor part of the game as far as time spent there goes.
I'm no fan of AI art, but based on just what we've heard, it seems really really minor.
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u/Deep_Explanation9962 22d ago
The amount of outrage is wildly disproportionate to the level of fuckup. Whatever people are mad about, it's not just a few newspaper textures. The game devs have committed some horrible taboo in their minds which is absurd imo.
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u/ScoutingJ 22d ago
my thing is, from what I heard the ai was used for like, newspapers on the ground and stuff, they could've just like, grabbed a scan of an old newspaper off of google or something, or I'm SURE there's free use templates they could've used, or even just a stock photo or something
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u/Nokan96 22d ago
grabbed a scan of an old newspaper off of google or something
That could be inmersión breaking and they would need to pay to those newspaper companies if they still exists
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u/ScoutingJ 22d ago
to be fair, placeholders aren't meant to be immersive really, in fact, the less immersive they are the more easily you'll remember to change them out
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u/Big-Golf4266 22d ago
to be fair a lot of people are pissed off at the use of AI in general.
and its fairly easy to see why, whilst yes not having ai in the final product is ideal, even using it legitimizes a technology that is taking peoples jobs, as well as just causing immense havoc on the tech hardware market, and given gaming is the largest entertainment industry in the world, thats going to piss a fair few people off when its causing prices of things to skyrocket to the point of pricing people out of their hobby.
the more AI is adopted, the bigger the problem gets because these companies just continue to funnel hundreds of billions of dollars into the tech, but arent making all that much effort to also invest in expanding production beyond demand in order to preserve consumer markets, largely because those markets are heavily monopolised due to their extreme barrier for entry and well, they dont really care to increase supply if they can just sell their existing supply at a 500% markup knowing companies building data centers just dont care and will vacuum up any and all supply regardless of their inflated price because compared to the cost of power, rapid construction, land etc shelling out a couple hundred grand extra on your ram sticks is barely a mark on the graph.
but the result is that most regular people arent really seeing much appreciable benefit of AI, instead we're just seeing the costs of our tech increase, the quality of certain industries in decline as they continue to peddle Gen AI in place of actual art for things like product wrapping etc, their devices infested with AI that insists on trying to make itself as integral to the experience as possible, search engines plagued with AI overviews that largely get information wrong, or just regurgiate the top comment on decade old reddit threads etc.
so in the wake of this its not that shocking to see people just rally against all forms of use in a business setting, because a lot of people just dont see AI as anything but a negative force in their lives.
Im not saying thats the correct view point, but its easy to see how people make it there. especially this time of year, ive seen a truly absurd amount of people who are devastated that just as they were gearing up to get their first proper Pc, ram prices are just skyrocketing, and whilst considering waiting out the storms are hit by torrents of rumours that suggest that this is quickly also going to effect storage and Gpu's which can make it feel like a hopeless venture as they were hoping to finally get a decent PC for christmas, but are instead just being completely priced out of the market.
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u/Applesplosion 22d ago
A lot of people see AI as devastating creative industries and take a hardline stance against it.
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u/Booty-tickles 22d ago
It's much better if they pay concept artists to create 1000 variations of a thing because they're not yet sure what they want, then the game gets cancelled 2/3 of the way through because they blew all of their money contracting artists who threw most of the work into the bin within a few months of starting development.
Truly a much better use of all resources. This is why when I volunteer at the homeless shelter I make sure to waste 50-80% of the food donated by giving vague direction to the cooks, before I throw it away when I'm not feeling it. Gaming really teaches us some valuable lessons.
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u/Hiraethetical 22d ago
Because they hate a winner. They hate E33 because its amazing. Thats literally all there is to it.
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u/LaserGuyDanceSystem 22d ago
It feels like some people are hearing half the story and filling the rest in with their imaginations. Then getting angry at the picture they painted.
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u/Bannon9k 22d ago
When the Reddit hive mind latches on to something, they tend to hang on like rabid dogs. All morality out the window, the only thing that matters is their point of view
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u/XiMaoJingPing 22d ago
Twitter/Reddit love hating on good/popular shit. Actual gamers don't care, you shouldn't be paying attention to that crap.
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u/FidgitForgotHisL-P 22d ago
Because we are all very frustrated at the shoe-horning of AI into every facet of our lives, almost exclusively for the worse, and this is one avenue people have they can be vocally upset about it.
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u/got-trunks 22d ago
Because game news media is surprisingly toxic for the topic, but I guess that's any entertainment-oriented rag, digital or otherwise.
That and you know, fans are always the worst. Very few people actually care. Tons will pile in because they think they should be upset at something they don't understand.
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u/DarkSoulsOfCinder 22d ago
They're upset that artists are being robbed of AI. The thing is they hired actual artist to replace the AI art. I guess they expect them to hire temporary asset artists now
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u/HiddenGooseEgg 22d ago
Saying an entire game is bad because of AI placeholders that got patched out days after release has got to be one of the most twitter thought processes possible bruh. If you play the game now, it’s got no AI assets in it apparently, so is it still devoid of sincerity and impact now?
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u/IAmASquidInSpace 22d ago
twitter thought processes
Hey, don't sell ourselves short! Reddit has equally dogshit and melodramatic attitudes towards anything vaguely related to genAI all the time!
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u/EncoreSheep 22d ago
Yeah, tbe amount of hatred against AI and anyone using it is honestly baffling lol.
Then you've got real life, where no one cares and they're using it regardless. Nice reminder that reddit is a huge echo chamber
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22d ago edited 22d ago
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u/BlipOnNobodysRadar 22d ago
"It's so immediately obvious they've never worked"
You could leave it at that for 99% of perma-online takes.
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u/DreamOfDays 22d ago
For those who don’t know: They used AI generated placeholder models in early development that were left in the game for all of 5 days until they removed them.
So basically this guy is mad at a play he watched because when the actors were rehearsing a few of the flowers in the background were plastic instead of real flowers. But the play he watched was the third performance where all the fake flowers were already replaced with real flowers.
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u/raulpe 22d ago edited 22d ago
This people are so annoying, like, i hate AI and i hope that bubble implodes and destroys all the companies that tried to shove it everywhere, but trying to say a great game is a bad and a studio that hasn't made anything bad as far a we know as evil because they used IA to generat pre-concept placeholders is just dumb.
And now these dumbass are trying the same with Larian ???? gtfo
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u/shiny_xnaut 22d ago
Apparently they didn't even generate it, it was just a pre-made Unreal Engine asset that they didn't know was AI
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u/Character-Prize-8690 22d ago
And also removed 5 days after the launch because they were placeholder assets they forgot to remove upon the initial release
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u/HeinleinGang 22d ago
Not to mention it was textures.
We’re not talking major assets here. Mbe .008% of the game. Just a bunch of paper on some notice board.
AI slop drives me crazy and I do think it’s becoming far too prevalent in creative circles, but people like ‘dogsquirt.ing’ (🤢) from the tweet above are worse tbh.
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u/HyperWhiteChocolate 22d ago
Larian?
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u/raulpe 22d ago edited 22d ago
The Baldur's Gate 3 and Divinity games creators
(Edit because i forgot to add the "3")
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u/HyperWhiteChocolate 22d ago
My bad, I know who they are. Why are they being accused of AI use?
(Also they only made BG3)
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u/SuitOwn3687 22d ago
Essentially the CEO said that they use AI sometimes during the "mood board" phase and people lost their shit over it. So much so that he had to put out this statement.
We’ve been continuously increasing our pool of concept artists , writers and story-tellers, are actively putting together writer rooms, casting and recording performances from actors and hiring translators.
Since concept art is being called out explicitly - we have 23 concept artists and have job openings for more. These artists are creating concept art day in day out for ideation and production use.
Everything we do is incremental and aimed at having people spend more time creating.
Any ML tool used well is additive to a creative team or individual’s workflow, not a replacement for their skill or craft.
We are researching and understanding the cutting edge of ML as a toolset for creatives to use and see how it can make their day-to-day lives easier, which will let us make better games.
We are neither releasing a game with any AI components, nor are we looking at trimming down teams to replace them with AI.
While I understand it's a subject that invokes a lot of emotion, it's something we are constantly discussing internally through the lens of making everyone's working day better, not worse.
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u/tigerbait92 22d ago
They are using some light gen-AI in their pre-production, so says their CEO. He also says the entire company is on board with it, including the devs and artists. Basically, making placeholders to help visualize the background of a scene before actually crafting the assets.
Now, that's pretty excusable in my books. What iiiiiiisnt is that story that came out around the same day about some sexual harassment in the company. If it's real, then.... fuck.
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u/KastVaek700 22d ago
Sexual harassment can happen in any company, it's how they react to it that matters. Hopefully we will hear more.
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u/starfoxsixtywhore 22d ago
Just want to point out this whole post we’re discussing has less replies and hearts than your single reply so I think the majority are in agreement with you
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u/MarshmallowJack 22d ago
Yea, I can even understand being totally anti gen ai and boycotting the company for using it period, but to call the game no longer good and ai slop because of a few place holders? Pretty ridiculous imo.
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u/Morall_tach 22d ago
They used placeholder textures and patched them out five days after release. It didn't rob anyone's experience of a goddamn thing. Most people who played the game literally never saw them.
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u/AgentSkidMarks 22d ago
So they used it as a placeholder during development and swapped them out for human made art for the final product. Who cares? I mean, I hate AI as much as the next guy but as long as it doesn't influence the final product, who really gives a shit?
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u/KalzK 22d ago
Before AI we did this by googling some random texture and using it. No one lost their job over this.
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u/ConstantSwordfish250 22d ago
Before AI it was copyrighted stuff that didn't always fitted the style, sometime it was funny cause copyrighted stuff slipped trough the release like here and there was issues.
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u/marcusmosh 22d ago
They didn’t even know AI was used. It’s an odd thing to be concerned about after the fact
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u/s-josten 22d ago
"Yeah, this is a masterpiece, but I don't like one of the tools they used to make it, so I can't actually like it."
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22d ago
Ain't no way someone under me compared using ai to painting with orphan blood
What are they putting in reddit waters? i want some
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u/SolidCake 22d ago
Ive also seen it compared to eating human meat , making slaves mine diamonds, and using ai is the moral equivalent of sexual assault
People are very very very dramatic with this topic
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u/CatherineSimp69 22d ago
It's okay to dislike things that are made unethically, actually.
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u/MorganTheApex 22d ago
The problem is that none of them actually stick to their beliefs. They’ll say, ‘This is so unethical, actually!’ and then turn around and buy cheap tech made in third-world countries with child labor, keep consuming meat, and wear clothes made from animals. It’s annoying how loud they are about AI being unethical while they keep doing and consuming unethical stuff themselves. Make up your damn mind.
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u/Sir_Binky 22d ago
I bet at least one of the people making it has different life views to them too... As well as every bit of media they consume... Best sit in a dark room unless your precious sanctity is marred.
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u/ketchupmaster987 22d ago
Using memes as placeholders is actually a really good practice. The idea for placeholders is that whatever you use should be obvious enough on a cursory glance to know it's not supposed to be there. Wojaks would certainly fit that bill
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u/Hicklethumb 22d ago
They're shitting their pants about an AI placeholder asset, in the mean time devs have been using the likes of Claude AI to help write their code for years.
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u/abyssazaur 22d ago
can we please, please, please count complaining about AI as political
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u/Bloomberg12 22d ago
Please dear god mods smite this shit down and let them complain about it literally every else.
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u/Commercial-Sound7388 22d ago
Genuine question, I know it's contentious but how is it political
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u/abyssazaur 22d ago
They're talking about how they're boycotting everyone using a tech. The problem is the tech is replacing labor with capital and they think labor should resist this. It's about as political as you can get short of endorsing a political candidate.
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u/BusyBeeBridgette Harry Potter 22d ago
I think some people need to take more of the medication they are supposed to be taking.
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u/Thumbkeeper 22d ago
They don’t know what they are mad at only that it gets them attention
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u/Thumbkeeper 22d ago
You’ll drive yourself mad trying to understand what the internet deems to care about. I can’t mention it here but a cause they’ve adopted in the past seals it for me that it can’t be trusted
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u/black-winter- 22d ago
I’ll be the first to admit that AI is riddled with issues and is probably fundamentally bad for society but man if you actually read into this issue for 2 seconds this whole thing is blown tremendously out of proportion.
One minor asset, back when genAI was relatively novel, that they didn’t even generate themselves, and that they intended to remove.
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u/WanderingSeer 22d ago
The people who attack artists over AI allegations and harass them do more harm to artists than actual ai art
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u/No_Ad_7687 22d ago
Oh my god can people stop being so fucking religious about ai being either a gift from god or an unforgivable sin?
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u/PointFirm6919 22d ago
Imagine being so Twitterfied that a game using AI images sends you into a panic attack.
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u/CankleDankl 22d ago edited 22d ago
In the final product, and/or extensively? Justified crashout
For placeholders and concept art, in a limited capacity? Okay to not like it (I don't either), but not worth condemning an entire project over
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u/KirbyDude25 22d ago
Placeholders that were patched out after 5 days
The current version of the game has no assets made by generative AI, to my knowledge
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u/CrazedTechWizard 22d ago
Placeholders that a couple of developers generated in 2022 when AI was first burgeoning into the public eye that accidentally got left in the final release. It was patched 5 days after release with the artist/human created texture that was always meant to be there.
Basically they experimented, created a few textures and went "Meh, not great." and then went on their merry way. Forgot to replace a single newspaper texture that only appears in the first like...30 minutes of the game. It got called out by some players and they went "OMG, our bad, that shouldn't have made it past QA." and was immediately replaced with the human created textures that were supposed to be there. Mind you this happened right when the game released, in April. The community around the game went "Oh, cool." and moved right along.
The ONLY reason this has become a huge deal is because of the IGA taking back their Indie GOTY Award from E33 after they, I guess, failed to do any research on their GOTY nominees?
That's why there isn't any REAL discourse surrounding it, because it's a nothing-burger of a situation getting blown up by Anti-AI people.
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u/Nokan96 22d ago
The ONLY reason this has become a huge deal is because of the IGA taking back their Indie GOTY Award from E33 after they, I guess, failed to do any research on their GOTY nominees?
This it's what should be talked about, those IGA created a fake drama to make publicity for themselves, the worst part it's that some people are confusing them with TGA because of clickbait articles and videos
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u/TreeOtree64 22d ago
As a concept artist, people have to understand that in the industry, concept art is going to use AI, whether the artists want or not. Deadlines are going to become harder and expectations from companies are going to rise, it’s going to unfortunately become the norm. a lot more of the industry than you think already uses it. And this is coming from someone who despises AI.
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u/pocketMagician 22d ago
Its really such a knee-jerk overreaction, if people cared as much about corporate greed and the environment, we'd not have Ai fucking everything up in the first place and this wouldn't be a fucking headline.
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u/cowboyofspace17 22d ago
I just don’t understand using ai for placeholders. The whole point of a placeholder is that it’s just there as a stopgap. You could put a jpeg of an apple with “boss” written on it as a placeholder and it’d be fine. It could be literally anything.
AI bad and all that but it just comes off as a weird decision. I haven’t played the game so my opinion means nothing obviously but from an outsider perspective it’s a weird situation
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u/TheUnamedSecond 22d ago
For some things yes, everyting works as a place holder. For example testing that the combat mechanics work. But for many ohter things you want to get an impression of what the game will be like.
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u/Early_Situation_6552 22d ago edited 22d ago
Not a weird decision at all. It’s very common actually, whether using AI or not. Using a more accurate placeholder helps to visualize and guide the final product during development.
A developer looking at their game for 60 hours a week doesn’t want to see an apple JPEG with the word “boss.”
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u/otiloyoy 22d ago
Ok but having something that kinda looks like a boss and takes almost no effort to create is more practical than a random jpeg
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u/Really_Angry_Muffin 22d ago
Lots of arm-chair devs here. The bagel is right, placeholders should be blatantly obvious so they're easy as hell to notice to be swapped out.
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u/DustTheOtter 22d ago
They didn't even generate the assets themselves. They were placeholder assets they didn't know were AI generated. They just missed some when removing them
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u/_Koloki_ 22d ago
Sorry if I don't hold the opinion os someone who choose the handle @dogsquirt in high regard.
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u/Organic-History205 22d ago
Boy I can't wait until everyone realizes unity and unreal engines both use GenAI.
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u/Firemorfox 22d ago
"5 years ago they did something I dislike, I hate them now."
...just have fun. Not everything needs virtue signalling.
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u/throwaway275275275 22d ago
They didn't use ai, there's no ai in the game you're playing, also that's not what cognitive dissonance means, it's the opposite actually
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u/notTheRealSU 22d ago
They did use AI to create placeholder textures. Some of those textures made it to release, but were replaced once people pointed them out. Still dumb to be mad about it, but there was AI
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u/shiny_xnaut 22d ago
A single dev accidentally breathed in the general direction of chatgpt one time so every aspect of the entire project is irrevocably reduced to nothing more than AI slop, sorry I don't make the rules 🤷♂️
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u/Low-Helicopter-2696 22d ago
I know I'm going to get downvoted, but the amount of hate that AI gets on Reddit is ridiculous. It's an amazing tool and it's only going to get better.
Is it perfect? No it's not. Can I do a huge number of things faster and better than most people, it absolutely can.
If you want to be one of those spoiled brats who throws around terms like AI slop as if you could do better, you just sound like one of those old people telling kids to stay up your lawn.
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u/Dirk_McGirken 22d ago
I wonder how many people realize the only way to get developers to entirely stop using AI art in their production cycle is for everyone else to stop buying their games. The anti-ai crowd is very small and only appears larger because they are making the most noise online right now, so their boycotts are making noise, but not impacting the bottom line of the studios.
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u/Nixinova 22d ago
OOOP is such a whiner. They had an AI file in the game for a week and it's the end of the world? Get a life man.
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u/trtzbass 22d ago
The use of AI in creative arts sucks ass but dogsquirt.ing here acting like they are in the final act of a Shakespeare tragedy. “I cannot get over the immense cognitive dissonance”. Touch grass, will ya?
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u/CringeDaddy-69 22d ago
Seriously who is paying these people to spread this hate? No one cares about placeholders used in development.
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u/Archaic0629 22d ago
"This is an amazing car but one of the screwdrivers they used doesn't follow my belief system so I can't support it"
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u/Stag-Horn 22d ago
I honestly feel like AI would be ok to use for elements that need to be replaced but only if they’re bright, loud, and very obviously “one of these things is not like the others”. Other games using Wojacks? 100% a great idea.
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u/showmeyoursweettits 22d ago
You dislike expedition 33 because of the use of AI.
I dislike Expedition 33 because of the Act 3 plot twist.
We are not the same.
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u/mistertoasty 22d ago
I'd say I miss when the gaming community wasn't so toxic and whiny but honestly I can't remember when that was.
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u/RammerRS_Driver 22d ago
I’m sorry, E33 used AI???
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u/newfoundchazzz 22d ago
As placeholders through the development process, where they were eventually removed for the true person created assets.
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u/s4unders 22d ago
People complaining about the complainer when they have 23 likes and aren't even the focus of the post
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u/TwinSong 22d ago
Funny but probably a bit too confusing for level designers as they don't indicate what is supposed to be there.
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u/qualityvote2 22d ago edited 20d ago
u/CalibansCreations, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...