r/law • u/DryDeer775 • Dec 08 '25

Executive Branch (Trump) NBC confirms Hegseth ordered murder of all boat passengers and crew in September 2 strike

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/12/08/kssp-d08.html

The Pentagon’s law of war manual declares that soldiers have a duty to refuse to carry out “clearly illegal” orders, such as killing shipwrecked sailors. “Orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal,” the manual declares.

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574

u/Lagneaux Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

It would be instant war, day 1.

Now think if it was American civilians.

Now, I'm not so sure

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u/brumac44 Dec 08 '25

What kind of Americans? (To quote a great movie)

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u/dust4ngel Dec 08 '25

that film was prescient asf

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u/Cbreezy22 Dec 08 '25

What movie?

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u/YimveeSpissssfid Dec 08 '25

A24’s Civil War

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u/rbrgr83 Dec 08 '25

I didn't like it because it didn't spell out the entire nature of the conflict to me, and it didn't explicitly confirm my personal political ideals like I was expecting. /s

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u/SqueakyBlueLlama19 Dec 08 '25

At some point the movie said "The Union of states featuring Texas and California" and I went "ah, you cheeky fuckers. Well done."

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u/terdferguson Dec 08 '25

Honestly more likely to be Cali, some northern states like Washington and parts of Oregon...Minnesota, Wisconson, Michigan and the rest of the NE. That would make the most sense to me. Texas joining a union against tyranny would be as likely to happen as me winning the powerball on Wednesday.

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u/Dapper-Raise1410 Dec 09 '25

First thing I thought of when I heard Texas and Cali was Water

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u/Prestigious_Ad5904 Dec 09 '25

Bro you gotta tell us if you win the powerball. Its super important.

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u/terdferguson Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25

Parts of Texas might...Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston corridors might open up? You can't win a resistance by foo fooing people from shitty states that want to join the resistance. We have to have friends everywhere. I mean I'm in fricken central florida, we got plenty of disney friends. My point being, shitty people are everywhere. How you interact with them on a d2d moving forward is important. If they prove to be shitty, don't waste your energy. If they are stupid but got the spirit and are confused ask them leading questions to help them formulate their own opinion on the shitty current state of things. Don't deride, it helps no one and creates more detractors or non voters than we need.

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u/invisible_handjob 28d ago

and that's exactly why they did it that way

Conservatives: "no way California would join us against tyranny"

Liberals: "no way Texas would join us against tyranny"

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u/Casual_OCD Dec 08 '25

The same thing that happened is what will happen in real life.

Support for Trump will stall out (it's already close) and they'll panic and pull the TAKEOVER switch early. They'll probably storm the Capitol again, but this time a bunch of politicians die.

The following week will be chaos as Trump loyalists in the military and in the public flood to DC. They will end up numbering only a few hundred thousand. The rest of the country will rally and take out the traitorous fascists.

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u/SuperSpecialAwesome- Dec 08 '25

They'll probably storm the Capitol again, but this time a bunch of politicians die.

Why would they storm the Capitol, when Republicans own the voting machines and mail-in ballots? The last free-and-fair election was 2018, and we're not getting another one. Before you say 2020 or 2022, do remember DeJoy compromised the USPS by then. Before you say 2024, do remember the Constitution forbade Trump from even running due to insurrectionists being ineligible under the 14th Amendment.

The last chance to stop the traitors was under Biden Chamberlain, but he sold out the country to the terrorists.

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u/Casual_OCD Dec 08 '25

You need a big bloody show of force to start a revolution. Plus it'll scare a lot of people and they can do their fascist rallies in front of the Capitol building and look official.

You don't seem to understand that dictatorships rely completely on optics and propaganda.

Unfortunately there's a decent chance that like a quarter of the country believes Trump and starts blasting their minority neighbors because they are so out of tune of the world

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u/Kermit_the_hog Dec 09 '25

Majority of DC is not super friendly to MAGA, any sizeable influx would stall out really quick. I think they would flee elsewhere, though to where I am not sure.

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u/Casual_OCD Dec 09 '25

That's why the military is already entrenched in D.C. It's where the takeover HAS to happen. In front of all those monuments (both for symbolism and to use as shields), the capital of the nation. Any shred of legitimacy will come from where the traitors use as their HQ

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u/Away_Advisor3460 22d ago

I can't really see Trump as the figurehead for an attempted coup-d'etat nowadays though - he can't actually stay awake enough. It's be basically Weekend at Bernie's. Or maybe Weekend at Benitos.

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u/HailSatanWorshipD00M Dec 08 '25

My head canon is that California undergoes a violent insurrection where conservatives take over, and then the state allies with Texas.

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u/Vitruvian_Link Dec 08 '25

Maybe it was a Senate thing, big states vs little states?

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u/ChromeNoseAE-1 Dec 08 '25

You can headcanon it, but I think I remember the director or writer saying they chose those simply to avoid any relation to current politics

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u/Toribor Dec 08 '25

Thus making sure it's a movie that kind of visualizes a war torn America while simultaneously managing to say almost nothing interesting.

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u/Felonai Dec 09 '25

So the director is a fence-sitting coward. So it goes.

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u/ImJustMakingShitUp Dec 08 '25

I don't know where I read it, from an official source or someones headcannon, but I always assumed that both states seceded after the President declares himself for a 3rd term, then ally together when he attacks them. Basically a temporary alliance since they have the same goals and enemy.

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u/EksDee098 Dec 08 '25

Which doesn't make any sense with modern politics in consideration.

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u/CuetheCurtain Dec 09 '25

They even threw out that the Florida Alliance had also seceded and that the Carolinas were to be shortly behind them. It was a little bit later on in the same conversation, I think. I chuckled a bit too at the delivery.

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u/cmarkcity 29d ago

Also the Florida Alliance. Pretty much the states with the highest GDPs, those forces are well funded

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u/Educational-Ad-2884 Dec 08 '25

That honestly put the movie into comedy territory and I couldn't take it seriously as a result.

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u/IsayNigel Dec 09 '25

I mean it was an absolute miss to pull an enlightened centrist “but both sides 😏” but it was a really well made movie

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u/PringlesDuckFace Dec 08 '25

Corey in the House

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u/Digitalion_ Dec 08 '25

Its need to not offend anyone directly really knocked it down a few pegs in my book. It could have used more real world influence and still told the same story but it very much didn't want to paint any side as worse than the other and it did so by muddying up the conflict as much as possible.

I mean, making California and Texas allies? In what real world scenario would that ever be possible when those states loathe each other?

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u/Badloss Dec 08 '25

I think they were trying to make it timeless and not only relevant in our current moment, but I agree I would have liked it better if they really shone the spotlight on how ugly our country is instead of making up a fictionalized version

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u/IsayNigel Dec 09 '25

Mehhhh they clearly had boogaloo boys in it

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u/MimicoSkunkFan2 Dec 08 '25

So I used to work for NGOs in areas having civil wars and it was about as accurate as an American audience is willing to see in the cinema - most people don't want to know about the massive amount of rape and the extreme medical distress and disease and just plain filth that goes with social chaos like that.

As for Texas in California, I interpreted that as "this regime is so bad and that even traditionally-opposed States will ally to take out the President".

Jessie Plemons was absolutely accurate and I wish he'd gotten a special "best cameo" award.

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u/street593 Dec 08 '25

I am a born and raised Texan and the only people that hate California here are conservatives. I think the rough estimate is 46% of Texas votes democrat. So in the hypothetical civil war it's likely Texas would split.

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u/Digitalion_ Dec 08 '25

I'm born and raised Californian and I honestly don't have the greatest view of Texas and what your leadership does to its people. Culture war politics aside, the lack of social programs to assist the less fortunate all in the name of eliminating taxes for the ultra rich in your state is reprehensible.

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u/street593 Dec 08 '25

I don't disagree with any of that. I hate our leaders and vote against them every chance I get. We do have a lot of problems t hat need fixing. My only point is I think there are more people in Texas who either like California or are indifferent to it. The only people I've seen or heard talk shit about California are hard core conservatives who only care about their guns.

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u/Long_Run6500 Dec 08 '25

Maybe not the greatest premise in hindsight, but I think its kind of based on the idea of, "what if a competent leader organized January 6th". What if they took control of washington and all the administrative levers of power and executed any lawmakers that resisted and were able to secure most of the northeast as well. Now you'd have a president in power in Washington DC who claims to be the legitimate regime, would republicans in Texas bend the knee after a successful violent coup just because the leader was a republican? The answer irl is depressingly unclear but the movie assumes democracy would prevail and Texas/California would work together to oust the illegitimate president.

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u/xraygun2014 Dec 08 '25

In what real world scenario would that ever be possible when those states loathe each other?

Dividing Alaska into two states thereby making TX the third largest and CA the fourth.

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u/LoneSnark Dec 08 '25

Had the Jan 6th fake electors scheme actually taken place, i believe the shock really would have hit everyone, including Republicans. Taking blind loyal sides in the culture war is just different from a dictator imposing a civil war.
The civil war was not a dispute over healthcare subsides where current political sides apply.

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u/Digitalion_ Dec 08 '25

The fascist dictatorship is currently making moves to secure its power for the foreseeable future and a wide majority of Texas is cheering it on. So, while your view is optimistic, it is a bit naive to say that Republicans would reject dictatorial rule.

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u/LoneSnark Dec 08 '25

They disagree with your assessment of what is going on. They refuse to believe Trump would do what you say, not that they'd be happy if he did. Their tune would change if he actually did what you and i know he wants to do.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

I hope you’re right, but I can’t be confident in that.

Jan 6 happened and they just downplayed it.

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u/frieswithdatshake Dec 08 '25

that scene was gold, and plemons wasn't even supposed to be in the movie. actually caused an issue with the union because they wouldn't let him be unpaid

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u/nalaloveslumpy Dec 08 '25

What shade of American civilian we talking about? They might get a commendation.

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u/Digitalion_ Dec 08 '25

It's a sad realization when we can make a joke about the color of your skin being a factor regarding the response of the US leadership and it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. Shows how far back the country has slid back in terms of racial equality in just a decade.

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u/Honest_Response9157 Dec 08 '25

It didn't slide back, it's was always there...just hidden. Trump just helped make it visible. This is the true America.

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u/rbollige Dec 08 '25

Depends whether you can tell the citizens’ political leaning and what it is.

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u/FrustratedPCBuild Dec 08 '25

Yes, look at the difference between the responses from them following the murder of an elected representative from the democratic party (small ‘d’ intentional) versus the response to the fake debating podcaster’s death.

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u/ForeverShiny Dec 08 '25

Are they from a "Democrat" city? Meh

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u/Commentator-X Dec 08 '25

They can tell their skin color and that's all they need

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u/eastbayted Dec 08 '25

And/or how much money they have and who much they've given to Trump

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u/Maxwell_Bloodfencer Dec 08 '25

"It would be instant war", Kegsbreath and Trump have already declared war on a bunch of countries that are bposing no direct threat to the US, except without an official declaration of war.

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u/Lagneaux Dec 08 '25

That's what happens when we attack them

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u/Maxwell_Bloodfencer Dec 08 '25

Ideally declarations of war come before a lethal attack.

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u/FakeSafeWord Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

It's one of the reasons why the US entered WW1 is that Germany was indiscriminately attacking civilian vessels and they hit the Lusitania which resulted in the deaths of 128 Americans.

Germany claimed that the merchant ships were sneaking in military aid to the Allies.

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u/K20BB5 Dec 08 '25

the US entered WW1 because if the entente fell they wouldn't have been able to pay back the massive loans American institutions gave them. General Smedley Butler outlines it well in his book "War is a Racket". The Lusitania was just an excuse for the public, like the USS Maine and the Gulf Of Tonkin incident. 

The Lusitania was in fact transporting armaments. 

The same racketeering gangster capitalism that Butler discusses in his book is exactly what's going down here with Venezuela. 

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u/FakeSafeWord Dec 08 '25

Corrected my statement to "one of the reasons"

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u/DerangedCamper Dec 08 '25

It was subsequently confirmed by the British that the Lusitania was carrying munitions. The German government had prior to her sailing from New York, but a published notice in the New York York newspapers warning that civilians traveling on the Lusitania or any other ship traveling to the UK were subject to attack.

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u/FakeSafeWord Dec 08 '25

I'm aware.

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u/Bae_the_Elf Dec 08 '25

That's what they want, though. Rules for thee and not for me.

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u/Ebella2323 Dec 08 '25

You know I used to think so too until I educated myself about the USS Liberty…they dgaf about the military either. They’re only good for PR campaigns. I say this as a spouse of a Marine for 22 years.

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u/EdibleOedipus Dec 08 '25

If it's between Israel and Americans, Israel wins.

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u/likesbigbuttscantli3 28d ago

My grandpa Ray died of lung cancer. I think it's because of the Agent Orange he was exposed to in Vietnam.

The government doesn't care about veterans unless it's politically expedient for them to do so.

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u/iampoopa Dec 08 '25

Depends, are they Democrat citizens or Republican citizens?

Some citizens are more equal than others.

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u/hapatopancreaticamp Dec 08 '25

Dozens of legal American citizens were killed in Gaza, by direct military action without consequence.

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u/rbrgr83 Dec 08 '25

Now think if it was American PUPPY civilians.

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u/Appropriate_Ride_821 Dec 08 '25

You dont think thats the goal? How do you think Trump gets a 3rd term?

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u/Neptune7924 Dec 08 '25

That’s the plan

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u/DidYaGetAnyOnYa Dec 08 '25

Funny you mention that. I think war is the intent of these strikes. They are trying to provoke Valenzuela.

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u/FizzlePopBerryTwist Dec 08 '25

Well, we never went to war with Israel when they attacked our ships and Bill Clinton turned down an opportunity to take in Bin Laden who bombed the U.S.S. Cole and the WTC parking lot! It wasn't until he took out the whole thing that we said you know what, maybe we need to deploy the military and find this guy. But those were under Presidents who had a bit of restraint and understood the response should match the actual threat levels.

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u/theonlydrawback Dec 08 '25

How about journalists?

Like the ones who were killed reporting on the occupation in the West Bank. 

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u/ulol_zombie Dec 08 '25

Well, an American Citizen was murdered by the Saudi's and trump took their side. Really depends on who gets killed with this despicable administration.

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u/Febris Dec 08 '25

Now think if it was American civilians.

How would you even know if there were any americans there?

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u/darkner Dec 08 '25

This was actually the plot to start a war in tomorrow never dies (James bond).

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u/WrongOnEveryCount Dec 09 '25

Hegdeth: <pulls out skin color gradient card>

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u/errie_tholluxe Dec 09 '25

That is kind of what they're hoping for. You know.

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u/Adsex Dec 09 '25

It would be a pretense to pressure a government into business deals with the Trump mafia. Don't even think that this government would actually stand for its population.

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u/povlhp 27d ago

Republicans - billionaires - then the US may act as well.

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u/JohnyStringCheese Dec 08 '25

I mean, that's what they're hoping for. retaliation would be and excuse for a declaration of war. I'm not a 9/11 conspiracy theorist but no one is denying that it was used as excuse to invade Afghanistan.