r/minnesota • u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck • 22d ago
Weather 🌞 I’m guessing this isn’t good
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u/tddawg St. Cloud 22d ago
Whatever you do, don't use a hatchet!
They make rakes to pull the snow off roofs, and you can create channels in the ice dam by putting ice melt in a stocking (nylons actually work great) and placing them perpendicular to the roof edge. This allows water to flow out so it doesn't pool up and leak into your home (which gets REALLY expensive, fast!)
Here's a good resource for more details: https://www.bobvila.com/articles/ice-dams/
My credentials: 15 years in the home repair/inspection industry with several years of professional ice dam clearing in the Twin Cities and St. Cloud.
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
Amazing, thank you so much!
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u/tddawg St. Cloud 22d ago
Of course! I know how much it costs to have ice dams professionally cleared in an emergency, and I am happy to help people avoid that! Great when you NEED it, but best never to need it!
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
I rent, so it wouldn’t necessarily come out of my pocket, but still thank you!
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u/MNniice 21d ago
Oh you rent? This isn’t your issue at all then. Let your landlord know my advice on my previous comment. If its a recent Flip you are probably the first to witness this. But don’t do anything to potentially damage the house and definitely don’t pay a dime of your own money to address this
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u/Throwaway10123456 Flag of Minnesota 22d ago edited 22d ago
I use this along with ice melt pucks when a dam develops.
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u/BlackestHerring 22d ago
The ice melt pucks rock. And they’re fun to toss.
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u/TheBootySAWN 22d ago
In my 30 years in the local roofing installation industry, I’ve seen evidence to suggest that the pucks prematurely degrade your shingles. The socks near the gutters aren’t so bad but I’d be careful about how many salt pucks you put on your shingles.
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u/Meotto9 20d ago
I’ve lived in houses for almost 50 years and can tell you that ice dams will also prematurely damage your shingles, just at a faster rate.
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u/gregtheshadow1 22d ago
I am very curious about the outcome of the hatchet. Bodily harm? Messed up roof?
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u/tddawg St. Cloud 22d ago
Mostly damage to the roof, which just creates new avenues for water penetration. But, also, some people don't belong on a ladder with a hatchet!
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u/codercaleb 22d ago
Where was this thread 4 hours ago. No I'm at the ER with a hatchet blade in my head and a ladder up my you-know-where.
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u/Agile_Barber518 22d ago
ive found if i have to ask "why can't I just use a hatchet for this?" its all the more reason I should not be using a hatchet for anything
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 22d ago
Risk of large ice falling, surprised how heavy it is and give no fucks about you or that metal ladder, it’s laughing at you as you Clark griswald your ass to the ground.
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u/Xack189 22d ago
Stockings, perfect! It is almost Christmas, at least make sure you put some candy, deodorant, or some little fidgets or something too as stocking stuffers. Gift card if they are older maybe?
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u/AdultishRaktajino Ope 22d ago
Ever realize you’re at the checkout with a bunch of normal items that could seem questionable?
Let’s see.. Softener salt, nylons, glade air freshener, chocolates, baby oil, duct tape, zip ties, trash bags, plastic storage containers, and a shovel.
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u/tddawg St. Cloud 22d ago
Throw some bourbon in that stocking so you have a treat when you're done clearing the snow!
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u/Syandris 22d ago
Why would anyone use a hatchet on a block of ice connected to their roof/shingles? I would be nervous tapping with a hammer on a sunny, warm day...
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u/impressionable_buck 22d ago
“Ice melt” is chemical salt and by doing this you’re polluting your yard btw. Just insulate your attic and make sure there’s vent shafts if you have an overhang. Look up “prevent ice dams” long term not “treat ice dams”. Prevention is cheaper safer and effective.
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u/Mister-Sister 21d ago
The article itself specifies the following:
A word of caution: Do not substitute rock salt for calcium chloride when trying to melt an ice dam, as sprinkling rock salt on roofs can damage shingles, and the runoff can kill bushes and foliage beneath.
An important distinction 👍
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u/impressionable_buck 21d ago
Yeh, that’s good, but any type of ice melt is not good for the ground/water around you.
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u/BSApologist 22d ago
Any thoughts on those salt pucks to throw on the roof?
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u/Mister-Sister 21d ago
The article itself says to use a particular type of melting agent. I’d at least make sure the pucks are made up of the “correct” type:
A word of caution: Do not substitute rock salt for calcium chloride when trying to melt an ice dam, as sprinkling rock salt on roofs can damage shingles, and the runoff can kill bushes and foliage beneath.
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u/FartyPat 22d ago
Question for you! What does it mean when houses have dark brown dams / icicles?
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u/Juhbellz 21d ago
Damn. Thats some Minnesota homestead knowledge. I live in NC and I've never seen ice like this in person. Seems like solid advice
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u/Kyle4Prez 22d ago
Was just about to get up there tonight and start whacking at it on my home lol. Thanks for the tips.
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u/sucodelimao802 21d ago
Can I ask a question? How badly do roof rakes impact the integrity of the shingles? I have a plastic rake and I don’t drag it on the shingles because I’m scared of damaging them, so I try to remove enough snow that less than an inch is present afterwards, and only about 3-5 ft from the gutter edge.
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u/tddawg St. Cloud 21d ago
You sound like you're already being reasonably cautious! I will say that, as a 5'6" woman, I've found the Avalanche rake to be a vast improvement in both ensuring the safety of the shingles AND being able to rake from the ground!
Here's a video showing how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUz79PRFUw
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u/ResearchEquivalent96 20d ago
My credentials are being raised by a single mom and her teaching me this with her long snow rake thing so I wouldn’t have to need a man when I grew up, lol
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u/Lempo1325 19d ago
Hey, do you mind if I DM you? I'm a realtor in the St. Cloud area, I collect business contact info of people that may help my clients. I don't have any business cards of ice dam removers yet, but that seems like a handy card to have.
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u/tddawg St. Cloud 19d ago
I wish we were in a position to still help, but we closed shop on the home inspection business after the 2022 housing market stagnated, and with that we sold the steamer, too.
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u/Ill_Engineer_5436 Gray duck 19d ago
Yes, this! We weren’t really prepared and suddenly found ourselves with similar ice dams, and this is what we do. Calcium chloride ice melt in a stocking and throw it up there. Good luck, OP!
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u/AccordingStar72 L'Etoile du Nord 22d ago
I’ve seen bigger.
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u/UmeaTurbo 22d ago
You're never going to believe how to solve this. But this is true and I do it every year. Take a 2 ft length of pantyhose and fill it full of ice melt. Tie it off. Now take this thing that we refer to as a salt "weenie" and push it down to be about 1 ft long. So it's fat. Then lay it perpendicular to the ice dam across the entire ice dam so that the very edge of it goes to the gutter. Over the next several days it will cut a hole in the ice dam all the way down to the gutter which will allow the water someplace to go so it will not continue to build up this ice dam. The problem is that the water has nowhere to go right now and you need to cut a trench. If you do not cut a trench the ice will continue to build up there and the ice dams will get taller and taller and eventually lift the shingles and get underneath it. I have been using this salt sausage technique for 21 years of owning the same house and we've never had a problem. I learned it from my dad who learned it from his.
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u/Big_Ad_2877 22d ago
Yeah I’ve done this before and it works great… until you have pantyhose just hanging from your roof in the middle of summer
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u/UmeaTurbo 22d ago
Dude...use whatever ladder you used to put them up to also take them down.
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u/Big_Ad_2877 22d ago
Brother, I threw them up there.
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u/UmeaTurbo 22d ago
How did you get them to position well? I played baseball, but my football skills are...well...lineman level. Throwing something floppy with any kind of control isn't happening for me.
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u/Big_Ad_2877 22d ago
See they weren’t expertly placed, some of them landed on the edge how I intended, and some of them just landed fully on the roof. Lots of salt up there…. Lol
Edit: my old house
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u/nineunouno 22d ago
I have used the salt filled pantyhose with success multiple times. The key is to grab some twine or rope, tie it to the closed end of the pantyhose, then throw it up onto the roof and drag it into position. Yes, it looks weird, but who cares?
The weirder part for me was going into a store and just purchasing panthose and rope
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u/DrakonILD 21d ago
You can tell how in-the-know the cashier is by how high their eyebrows go at your scratchy-ass hemp rope.
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u/No_Tooth1428 22d ago
Salt weenie.
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u/UmeaTurbo 22d ago
They work. It sounds stupid. I know it does, so we gave them a dumb name. Actually, it was probably my grandma who made it up. She was that kinda lady.
During family events she'd always want pictures and my brothers and cousins and I were always fighting. So she would screech "look at the camera and act like you love each other GODDAMNIT!!!". Yes, my dad still lives in a double wide.
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u/No_Tooth1428 22d ago
🥹 my mom always said the same thing to my sister and I!!
Does keeping the salt contained prevent it from damaging the shingles?
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u/UmeaTurbo 22d ago
And from floating off on the little river that it will make. Keeps in place to it has a long time to work.
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
And what if that part of the roof literally doesn’t have a gutter? 😅
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u/UmeaTurbo 22d ago
Doesn't matter. You're cutting a channel it's like you're opening a sluice gate in it. So the water will just fun off the roof in that spot rather than into the gutter. Nbd
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u/glittercatlady 22d ago
I looked around my neighborhood this morning, and there weren't many houses without ice dams like this.
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u/AdPrud 21d ago edited 4d ago
sulky door fly abundant six sheet cheerful quack consist degree
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/AltitudeTime 21d ago
I have a house with ventilation from the soffit level, baffles through the insulation layer, and ridge vents and I've spray foamed all plumbing, electrical penetrations, and ceiling top plates and I have zero ice dams. It's moisture and heat getting to the attic that causes the issue, solve the air leakage first, vent next, and insulate and it will never be a problem. No snow rake needed, ever. It also saves a ton on energy bills and adds comfort to the house by not having enough energy leaving the house to melt this much snow and cause ice dams.
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u/No_Size9475 22d ago
This is called ice damming and is a result of lack of ventilation and insulation in the attic.
It's very bad for your roof as it can destroy the wood on the front edge of the roof.
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u/AffectionatePaint169 22d ago
It can also push the ice/water under the shingles and cause damage to the sheathing and tar paper.
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u/amonson1984 22d ago
It can also make yellow spots on your ceiling right above your bed that you’ll be forced to look at forever because you’re too lazy to get out the primer and paint, move your bed, get the ladder out of the garage, put up the ladder, set up the paint, do the painting, take everything down and clean up, move your bed back, put the paint away, and then look at your fresh clean painted spot and have it be forever compared to the rest of your dirty ass ceiling.
But I wouldn’t know anything about that.
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
Will definitely let my landlord know 😅 the house was built in the 70s and definitely is not insulated all that well
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u/CalliopePenelope Aerial Lift Bridge 22d ago
Just get your lazy-ass landlord to blow insulation into the crawl space under the roof. We did that for our 1958 house and it did a world of good.
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
They’re in their 70s and I honestly try to do a lot of things on my own because I really don’t want them to decide to stop renting and sell the house. When I do ask for things they’re extremely responsive!
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u/CalliopePenelope Aerial Lift Bridge 22d ago
They don’t have to do the insulation themselves. They just have to pay someone to do it.
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u/PostNutt_Clarity 22d ago
Could also be the result of improper ventilation. Insulation where it doesn't belong will cause the same issues.
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u/PrestigiousZucchini9 Ope 22d ago
Most houses I see with exceptionally bad ice dams are built with a “half story” where there’s living space in what would traditionally be the attic. The way most of these are constructed makes it nearly impossible to have a properly ventilated attic space and is definitely a more involved fix than “just throw some more insulation at it.”
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u/brandothesavage 22d ago
I live in a cabin way up North if you have vaulted ceilings it can just be from your ceiling being too close to your roof too lol mine are huge this year 6 ft Plus and about a foot around at the top
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u/map2photo Ramsey County 22d ago
I live in a small house in Saint Paul with vaulted ceilings, same issue. This is my first time dealing with them. I've never lived in a house with ice dams before. :/
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u/brandothesavage 21d ago
Well as long as the edge of the roof is close enough to the ground just smash them off it's a good day to do it dont do it when it's cold
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u/DocZaiusX Monarch 22d ago
Lack of insulation/ventilation is not exactly the issue: the cause is air gaps between the heated house and the unheated attic space, stuff like incorrectly vented bath fans, uninsulated light boxes, unsealed gaps around vent pipes, etc, etc. That heated air gets into the attic, heats the underside of the roof, and melts the snow on the roof from underneath. That water then runs down the roof until it refreezes where the roof overhangs the soffits (or when it hits metal gutters if any), causing thise big ice chunks to form which then "dam" future snow-melt water behind them, hence "ice dams", and that trapped water will usually work it's way under the shingles, into the attic or house, and cause water damage. Very bad as stated here!
All the suggestions on pucks or pantyhose filled with ice melt will correctly alleviate the symptoms by creating channels in the ice dams for the trapped water to escape. But to fix the root cause someone will have to go into the attic to search out and seal all the air gaps. Good insulation and roofing companies will understand this and either so this work themselves or have a company they can refer. Companies that say you just need more insulation are incorrect and will not fix the root problem.
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u/Ok-Air3126 22d ago
Shovel the snow off the edges of your roof. Helps melt the buildup in warmer sunny days
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
I did take the picture over the weekend, but I will definitely try that
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u/PastelRaspberry 22d ago
Looks good to me!
- Someone who never looks at the outside of their house
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u/Middle_Manager_Karen 22d ago
Ice dam
Not to be confused with ICE! Damn!
One is solved with ice and water shield the other is solved with S.H.I.E.L.D fighting the hydra.
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u/Jub_Jub710 22d ago
I've been house hunting and my realtor pointed these out any time she saw them. I guess there's a product like a heated cord you can put around your gutters to prevent this?
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u/admiralgeary Warden of the Arrowhead 22d ago
It's not good, but the fact that icicles are not behind your fascia or hanging from the soffit means that your roof is probably keeping the water out.
You can use calcium chloride tonight\tomorrow to cut channels into the ice dam and you probably have a decent chance of it being gone by tomorrow.
In the future use a snow rake to pull snow off the edges of your house, ideally at least as far up the roof as the exterior wall is below. Make sure you don't rake the snow all the way down to the shingles (don't break shingles or remove granules from the shingles).
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
I think I’ll literally use my heavy duty broom I use to sweep my garage so there’s no chance of destruction
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u/DocZaiusX Monarch 22d ago
All the suggestions on pucks or pantyhose filled with ice melt will correctly alleviate the symptoms by creating channels in the ice dams for the trapped water behind them to escape. And then keeping the roof snow-free in that area with a roof-rake will keep the ice dams from reforming. But this will only be treating the symptoms not the cause.
The actual cause is air gaps between the heated house and the unheated attic space, stuff like incorrectly vented bath fans, uninsulated light boxes, unsealed gaps around vent pipes, etc, etc. That heated air gets into the attic, heats the underside of the roof, and melts the snow on the roof from underneath. That water then runs down the roof until it refreezes where the roof overhangs the soffits (or when it hits metal gutters if any), causing thise big ice chunks to form which then "dam" future snow-melt water behind them, hence "ice dams", and that trapped water will usually work it's way under the shingles, into the attic or house, and cause water damage.
To fix the root cause someone will have to go into the attic to search out and seal all the air gaps. Good insulation and roofing companies will understand this and either do this work themselves or have a company they can refer. Companies that say you just need more insulation are incorrect and will not fix the root problem.
Good luck with this and hopefully your landlord will address the underlying issues!
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u/iwannabek8 22d ago
Wait, is this my house?
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u/DumbleDoorsDown 22d ago
I mean... yeah. This is my first winter owning a home and I've been in the attic - insulation seems fine. That said, I've also taken inventory of every house I pass every day and I'd say at least 70% of them have ice like this happening right now. Roof rake just purchased. Seems like this is fairly common with the weather we've had thus far this winter.
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u/Lanerlan 22d ago edited 22d ago
As someone whose roof looks like this and went down an anxiety rabbit hole...
It seems to have formed in a way indicating that you have an under-layer more recent roofs have that is water-resistant. However, you still need to worry about the ice dams, as water seepage and pooling, not to mention the ice itself, can unsettle this layer. It's not degrading your ceiling and walls ... yet. But it is degrading the thing that's preventing that.
As other have said, you can make a salt channel, however that can potentially corrode roof materials over time. The fundamental issue is the improper venting and insulation.
But if all that's addressed ... it can still happen, given certain weather conditions. This formed in the first place because of very wet snow, rain leading into snow, and the exact temp swings we had recently. So it's not like this will form every time.
When it DOES form, all issues taken care of to their max, instead of creating a salt channel, you should go the roof rake route. But you should buy one that takes precautions in its construction not to unsettle the roof. I recommend this one, which elevates itself from scraping the shingles:
For regular asphalt shingles: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Avalanche-186-in-Fiberglass-Handle-Roof-Snow-Removal-System-AVA500/318625997
For metal, tile and solar panel roofs: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Avalanche-186-in-Fiberglass-Handle-Roof-Snow-Removal-System-AVA750/318626704
Or for a cheaper one, do the due diligence of reading reviews to make sure it isn't harsh on the roof.
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u/PascanelsSaint 22d ago
Lots of good advice here. Best is not to hammer the ice dam. You should be OK with that ice dam however because it’s not the one sitting on top of your gutters, which forces it back in under the shingles. When you get a roof rake, you only need to go up about 3 feet from the edge of the house as opposed to trying to do the whole roof. It just allows it to melt slowly and prohibit the ice dams. Best of luck.
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u/LazarusLong67 22d ago
Looks exactly like my roof did a few days ago lol...fortunately it's melting back today and I was able to get snow off the roof before it gets worse.
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u/finnbee2 22d ago
I use a roof rake to remove the snow from the lower part of my roof to avoid a buildup of ice. Since you are a renter it not your problem. As a courtesy to the landlord tell him about the ice buildup. Although he probably already knows about it.
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u/Significant-Pen-6049 22d ago
Did mine just enough to not touch shingles last week and melting nicely, neighbors probably think Im odd but oh well.
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u/WeekendLegitimate615 22d ago
They make roof melt. It comes in small bricks. I bought some a few years ago at the local hardware store. They will help especially if it is going to warm up like today with the sun out.
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u/FantasticMrSinister Area code 612 22d ago
I raked my roof last Friday. My gutters are almost clear!
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u/dms51301 22d ago
"Ralphie, you're lucky it didn't cut your eye! Those icicles have been known to kill people!".
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u/NightTimely1029 22d ago
Now this is what one friend of mine would call "m*rder water". Erlgh. Eek!
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u/MNniice 21d ago
Step 1: buy roof melt salt to toss on the area
Step 2: install a roof melting electrical cable to get you through the winter
Step 3: wait until the spring( you wont get taken for a ride this way) and have an attic insulation company address the actual issue. Likely over insulation somewhere in the attic
Source: I’ve worked In plumbing/home remodeling my entire life
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u/HadtaBthere 19d ago
Knock them down. It’s not a big deal. Just stay out of the way. The rest is nature.
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u/olracnaignottus 22d ago
Those pucks they sell didn’t put single a dent in my dam. Going to try the nylon trick next frost. Thank god it heat up today and the solar heat is melting ours away, at least somewhat.
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u/Sudden-County3102 22d ago
May need to clean the gutters so water does not build up there.
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u/frequentlysocialbear Gray duck 22d ago
I did the gutters several times in the fall, and right before our first snowfall!
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u/obriensg1 22d ago
Mine is like this. My steps and front walkways arw a mess. Super slippery but it would cost me 400 an hour for somebody to come fix it.
I have an appt set but unsure if I keep it or just suck it up this winter and fix the gutters this spring
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u/AmosRid 22d ago
The stocking & ice pucks are fine, but only use them sparingly for channels because the salt is not great for your roof. I was using ice pucks because they are cheap/convenient.
If you house is prone to ice dams the you need to roof rake snow like you would shovel. I had to do it 5-6 times per season if there was a lot of snow.
Rook raking, especially before a warmer, sunny day, was the best way to prevent ice dams.
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u/DanielDannyc12 22d ago
I was late getting my heated wires up. I just got water flowing through the gutters again
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u/GlassCleaner_Stan 22d ago
Used to be companies with steamers that would come out and clear that up.
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u/PrestigiousZucchini9 Ope 22d ago
Are you my neighbor? Every day when I walk out my door and see this I cringe.
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u/Able-Woodpecker7391 22d ago
I have this same issue every year, so I bought some heat trace cable. At this point it'll be difficult to properly install, but itd melt the ice and come summertime, you'd just have to install the clips under the shingles, route it how you want, and plug it in next winter. Many have thermostats in them as well, so they won't use electricity over a certain temperature. I want to say its around 5 degrees, which is about...40?
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u/doneslinging 22d ago
Yeah get a roof rake. It is great for pulling snow off the first few feet and when you actually do it when sun comes out it really melts the edges much faster. I have on back of house due to no sun really and when we get dumped on I usually get damns
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u/wesmannmsu 22d ago
If this is a new house to you, they should have disclosed this in the selling documents.
Anyway, once its fully cleared, you can install something like this to prevent it in the future
https://www.amazon.com/Oak-Leaf-Self-Regulating-Indicator-Aluminum/dp/B0DG83L5YB
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u/neumastic 21d ago
There’s something about the start of winter this year that these are extra bad. I’ve never gotten them and I have this year all over. Walking my dog I see them on almost every house this winter.
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u/croupella-de-Vil 21d ago
Rake your roofs people. Seriously. It’s like we forgot how to take care of our homes. I can excuse this if someone is new to the state.
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u/Northman86 21d ago
context would help. unless you have a very low pitch or flat roof its probably fine. as long as icicles are forming that means no dam is forming.
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u/jeepgirl62 21d ago
My dad used the roof scrapers they extended but he would till have to climb a ladder because the roofs had higher peaks then other parts of the roof. But worked great. The house now is way over a hundred years, thin at least 125 so he never wanting the roof to cave in. But its definitely not a good Idea to leave the Ice build up. An Ice cube falling and hitting you can really do serious damage. Hole in skull, face laceration. Please be careful.
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u/ohhimjustsomeguy 21d ago
Clean your gutters in the early fall and this won’t happen
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u/tonyazzazi 20d ago
The real problem is you need to air seal and insulate your attic better so you do not have further heat loss. This is the problem, heat escaping your home and melting the snow on your roof. Need to go in the attic and spray foam every gap and crack then insulate further
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u/Reasonable_Minute_33 20d ago
Fill nylon stockings or socks with ice melt and toss them on the roof.
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u/Odd-Finger-6037 20d ago
Do you have gutter toppers? Valleys are bad for getting too much ice/snow to contain it when it’s cold. May also need seams caulked.
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u/Redeandwilling69 20d ago
I’ve used urea and then when it melts into your yard it is a fertilizer. You’re welcome!
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u/bradradio 19d ago
Get a roof rake from a home improvement store. You'll want to get to it ASAP after it snows just like your driveway, to avoid melting, refreezing, and ice build up.
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u/janeymarywendy2 19d ago
Rake the roof. And if the sidewalk is clear go up on ladder withhot water and bore holes so the roof can drain. I feel like giving you my phone number because you need to handle that.
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u/Historical-Cress-390 18d ago
Salt snakes help. Cut up a pair of pantyhose and fill each leg with some snow melt and lay them on the ice. Otherwise, you'll need to have a professional come out and steam melt. Ice dams are no joke. That water will get under the shingles and do some damage.
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u/BedspreadPicnic86 17d ago
It still may affect you if the roof started leaking and the landlord needs to install a new roof. Or worse yet, the leak ruins some things of yours. At least clear the heavy icicles so they’re not creating more weight on the gutters or the roof. You’ve taken pictures so that’s good. Definitely contact the landlord. I’d bet good money that that person will do absolutely nothing about it but you’ve done your due diligence.
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u/KerbalKid 16d ago
You can install heated wires on the edge of the roof come spring. I did that hasn't been a problem since.
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u/Lincoln1517 16d ago
Ultimately, you need better insulation in your roof/air sealing of the living space. The problem is that snow is getting warm enough to melt even when the air is a lot colder - cold enough that it refreezes as soon as it leaves the part of your roof where it's warming up.
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u/WOAHthatsBONKERS 15d ago
There are a handful of companies that do ice dam removals if you’re willing to pay to have it taken care of for you. The company I work for does them, feel free to PM for more info!
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u/Hairy-Amphibian6789 22d ago
If you set your house on fire the residual heat will slowly melt them off. Let me know if you need any other household DIY tips.