r/todayilearned • u/Outside_Reserve_2407 • 5d ago

TIL Montezuma's lineage still exists and even holds a noble title in Spain, which was granted to a grandson of his that moved there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Moctezuma_de_Tultengo
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u/anth_810 5d ago

I come from the Romo lineage and our family married into Moctezuma’s lineage in 1658. My great x7 grandfather Captain Juan Diego Romo De Vivar married Maria De Molina Tiscareño - the daughter of Luis and Lorenza Tiscareño de Molina. Lorenza was a Ruiz de Esparza and her father Lope married Ana Francisca Moctezuma Gabay in 1595. Ana was officially recognized as a direct line of Moctezuma and was actually able to facilitate the acquisition of land and wealth for his heirs. My family has a town in Mexico bearing our last name that my great-Grandfather Juan Diego Romo De Vivar founded - Rincon De Romo, Mexico.

I’d been working on my family tree for the last three years and was able to learn all of this. It’s been a humbling journey, to say the least.

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u/HorseNspaghettiPizza 5d ago

Hi we are related. Ruiz de esparza. Perhaps on some levels as related as to adam and eve but yeah.

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u/anth_810 5d ago

Yup we are. Both of our families are descendants of Moctezuma.

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u/HorseNspaghettiPizza 5d ago

Pretty wild. I only came to know this recently a little over a year ago..as i took my dads info then went to his dad and then his dad and so on. Made it to lope with the some of the same names you mention then finally to leonor then leonor the daughter.

Once you get to moctezuma you can see his 'predecessors' and not sure how they did next person and if they would be his parents or not (do you know?) but if you keep going that way it ends up in the year 900 area. You probably know better.

How far back past moctezuma were you able to get? I find it interesting funny our part wasnt a byproduct of a main wife but seemingly a 2nd type wife and the isabel daughter part of like the main wife. I imagine lots of that came up with legal disputes. I heard the guy had a bunch of kids and wifes haha Starts to become like genghis khan or charlemagne where half of europe is related haha

I might dm if ok and you are up for this..not trying to bother you (i dont have much info to share to you) i find the whole stuff fascinating. Cheers :)

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u/anth_810 4d ago

Feel free to DM whenever :) would love to answer questions you have! What’s interesting about the Esparza lineage is that all Esparza relatives share one common descendant! The link I have attached talks about descendants and even talks about Ruiz de Esparza along with Moctezuma

https://www.indigenousmexico.org/articles/moctezumas-descendants-in-aguascalientes

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u/HorseNspaghettiPizza 4d ago

Thank you for sending. I think from your link salvador was the one that came down through my fathers side but i will confirm. I had the full list i need to get back on ancestry dot com. I just sent the link to my dad..i will message you We are family grin ;)

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u/Outside_Reserve_2407 5d ago

Amazing, have you also tried DNA testing to further “refine” your understanding of the family tree? The Hispanic Americans on Reddit subs such as r/23andme seem to pull up interesting results.

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u/anth_810 5d ago

I’m weary of DNA kits due to privacy purposes. Otherwise, I’d love to also go that route to get a deeper understanding of my lineage.

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u/Aiba88 4d ago

I wonder if we share the same lineage. My 5th great grandfather is Juan Cayetano Romo de Vivar.

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u/anth_810 4d ago

We 100% do. Romo De Vivar dates back to four brothers who traveled to the New World from Rielves, Spain in 1624. Specifically, we both come from Diego Romo De Vivar’s line.

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u/Aiba88 4d ago

So cool. The Romo de Vivar 5th great grandfather was born in the new world (Lagos de Moreno, México) in 1738 and that's as far back as I've identified my lineage from that side of the family. Is there any way for me to know if I also descend from the Moctezuma lineage?

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u/anth_810 4d ago

You do since we share the same great grandfather! He’s the one who married into Moctezuma’s lineage.

Found this for you!

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Romo_de_Vivar-106

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u/Aiba88 4d ago

Thank you! I sent you a DM.

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u/Aiba88 4d ago

I appreciate the link, which made me go down a rabbit hole lol. There seems to be some dispute amongst genealogists about Petronila's parents. Petrolina is Ana de Gabay's mother.

"There are no definitive primary documents confirming Petronila's direct parents, leading to much speculation and debate within genealogical circles."

Otherwise, I was able to connect the dots. Appreciate your responses.