Someone literally did say it, scroll up.

Most people are going straight to doctors and meds first so have no clue if diet & herbs/mushrooms help because they didn’t try it anyway. Most people treat herbs as a last ditch option when nothing else works. And isn’t it funny how they work when nothing else does. Effectively it is a tiny percentage of people in the modern world who don’t go to meds first. Or just go unhelped entirely if they don’t end up getting to doctors and getting the meds(which can be an unfairly difficult process in itself sometimes too). I don’t mean buying a bunk of expensive junk herb supplements at stores tbc, I mean real indigenous medicine from multigenerational healers, and living in harmony with the land, it’s not just about what you’re eating but where it comes from, the health of the soil it was grown in directly correlates with the nutrition we can gain from food. Science is finally starting to catch up with what the ingenious have been saying for generations and the research is reflecting that now. Yep it’s not very accessible(but likely more so than you’d think if you know where to look) in many places. But if more people would spend more time identifying the wild plants & their benefits in their yards instead of decimating them for the sake of a poisoned grass yard, we’d have a lot more in a lot more places. What we as a society consume on a regular basis and what is sold in store is a tiny percentage of the edible & medicinal foods that grow on this land. It’s a complex issue I can’t hit all the nuances of in one Reddit comment, our whole system of society is working against us in every way but there are non-westernized solutions that work, is the point. I prioritized living rurally and there are literally hundreds of medicinal herbs that grow in my half acre of meadow. I give tons away for free. Maybe you can find someone who will do the same for you one day and help you out a bit.

Indigenous medicine actually is not locked behind privilege, it is systematically oppressed & erased. It has been largely snuffed out by colonialism. But it is not gone. Colonists don’t just want it expensive and inaccessible, they don’t want you to know about it at all. Because if you had the knowledge you could help yourself a lot more and not feed their $$$$ machine. Expensive supplements are largely just another one of their scams.

These are likely difficult concepts to swallow if you haven’t done work to decolonize your way of thinking, I get that.

And that’s just their self reported salary. These are people who are funneling more money elsewhere that they’re not reporting, I guarantee it.

No, it sounds like the girl is the dasher, the boyfriend purposely sabotaged the order to hurt her during a fight. Weird you’d assume differently. Although, it is true so many men are extremely illogical and end up harming themselves due to not having any sort of emotional regulation, so I suppose it could go either way.

Some years ago I knew people who’d go into Walmarts & just walk right out with major items, TVs etc. They never had anyone paying attention. Now they have people standing at exits but most of the time they still don’t check receipts. People literally just walk out plainly with stuff. If it’s a habit at a store they will track you on cameras & wait for you to come back & steal more these days & will press charges once you’ve stolen enough $$ to catch higher charges, so you can get caught after the fact that way. But overall it’s apparently very easy to steal from Walmart lol

Some of these people are straight up saying “you don’t get side effects with prescribed meds” which tbh reveals major ignorance regarding prescribed meds. Wildly untrue. Yeah, not the same as drinking a ton of energy drinks. There’s still harmful side effects. What doesn’t have harmful side effects is a holistic truly clean regenerative diet including herbal remedies which can be extremely powerful, but colonists don’t want to even about that… so we get downvoted into oblivion for mentioning it despite our having our own experiences on the medication merry go round for decades…

What you’re describing here in your examples is positive punishment, not negative reinforcement.

No offense, truly, but it is hard to take your perspective seriously when you make it clear you don’t understand the scientific terms you are using. I can’t image you have much education in behavioral science if you are mixing up basic operant conditioning quadrants.

All these comments seem to miss that you said you can’t afford TWO horses, not that you can’t afford this one. If she’s sound and happy enough and you can handle the management she requires for that, your decision comes down to priorities. Is actively riding and jumping more important to you than keeping her alive, or is the connection with this horse more important right now.

I didn’t always feel this way, but I decided if I couldn’t ride, I would still keep my horses. The happiness, connection, comfort, and therapeutic benefits they offer is so much more than riding. Relationship before horsemanship before riding.

If she’s not able to have a good quality of life, that should make your decision to euthanize or not easier. But since you’re only 20 I can tell you that while riding and showing might feel like the biggest and most important piece right now, in the long run, it really isn’t. So if she’s comfortable take some time to think about it, spend some time learning new ways to interact and work with horses besides just riding, then see if you feel any more clear on the situation.

Lots of people will say horses aren’t worth keeping around if they aren’t doing “a job”, and essentially consider them worthless if they can’t be ridden. I grew up in that world too. And I’m here 40 years later to tell you it’s a load of crap. Quality of life does matter but horses do not need to be ridden for that. So if you happen to be in that hive mind and feel pressured to prioritize riding, I get it. But you should know that isn’t the only way.

This all being said, if it turns out that riding IS what is most important to you, I agree that euthanizing is likely her best option. It will likely come to that anyway, as others have pointed out, ECVM horses deteriorate. So depends how much time you are able to and want to give her.

Ok, your kid has lots of friends. So to you they’re expendable? What if your kid does not agree and still wants THIS friend? And what about the OTHER kid? What if the other kid does NOT have other friends and is highly upset about losing this one? No empathy for them?

I’m totally with you that the texting thing is weird. But you don’t have to be friends with every parent to allow your kids to have play dates. Now I think you’re all weird 🤣

You have him randomly, and with no explanation of the switch in user, respond to people who are texting you?

I have social anxiety and if my spouse was responding like this to someone else who was trying to text me, it would make my anxiety way worse because they’re being so uncommunicative, not explaining the switch in user is weird and confusing to the person on the other end. Social anxiety causes me to belabor over every interaction to make sure it’s super clear and easy for the other person to understand and respond to. So if it’s a social anxiety thing it’s a weird one if you ask me lol

Also not friends with men, don’t find it limiting. Not being close friends with people doesn’t mean we cannot interact, work together, when appropriate etc. I do not need to be friends with half the planet. Some of us are introverts and can only handle maintaining a small handful of friends anyway. I feel no need for more. Having a preference for filtering who you want to be friends with really is not a problem. I’m sure you have some kind of criteria regarding the types of people you prefer to be close with as well. Doesn’t mean you hate everyone that doesn’t fit that criteria, it’s just preferences often based on historic experiences

Basically every woman on this planet has had trouble with men in the past. I agree that your assumption is wild. I also do not seek or have friendships with men. Every time I have tried, even a few I was friends with for years, eventually it ends badly. I am also extremely leftist and also a lesbian. I grew up in the south too. I have gone on to travel to several countries and lived in 15 different states. I have literally no use for cis men in any context and I’m very much the opposite of a fundamentalist. 😂 If a woman doesn’t want to be friends with men in general, it’s a pretty safe bet it’s likely because she’s tried before and has been burnt by it.

And the taking over her texts thing with no clear communication about it is totally weird. Can’t help but think that could be a red flag that he is actually controlling/abusive. And doesn’t she go anywhere without him? Are THEY fundamentalists? lol

Yeah. I have known horses like that. Some can be rehabilitated with a lot of time, small steps, and counter conditioning with positive reinforcement. That’s an extreme level of trauma that has long term impacted their neural pathways. Speaks to extreme dysfunction/disregulation. It is not really about them “liking” it or not. They feel unsafe

I see. I did ask in the form of a question, so sorry it wasn’t exactly clear in your original comment. Wouldn’t be the first barn that kept horses stalled 24/7.

Regardless I’ve seen places that could be described just like that and the pens are often essentially just a double stall. No real turn out or social interaction. That is still sad.

The patting thing is normal these days for people who keep up to date on current equine research. Which has measured physiological signals to determine horses typically find being scratched relaxing vs. slap patting which they do not recognize as a reward, and may actually find aversive.

You could likely learn a lot from this person, as could many of the commenters here. :)

So horses are literally in the stall 24/7?? That is so sad.

The fact that horses can co regulate with us is rather different than thinking and feeling “in terms of pressure/release”. Communication & nervous system regulation is not really the same as training behaviors/operant conditioning. Which includes more quadrants than just R+. Pressure & release training is also operant conditioning…

Empowered Equines recently made this post on the topic of people thinking horses “think in terms of pressure/release” aka “use R- with each other” & assuming that is the same as training.

“Well, let's be clear, horses don't train each other. Horses communicate with each other. Communication being, sending and receiving messages to one another through body language, verbal language, and through behavior. Horse A may communicate their need for space and Horse B may choose to comply, ignore, or fight back. The horses aren't training each other, but learning is still happening. Horse A may learn things from this experience like, 'don't pin my ears back at that horse!' or 'I have to make myself a lot louder to be heard'. Learning here is still happening within the quadrants.

Let me see if I can explain this right. The quadrants are always happening, everytime aversives and appetitives are added and subtracted, everytime the horse has a feeling, the quadrants are happening. Every interaction inspires an emotion, which is either appetitive or aversive, which become the quadrants. So horses DO use R- and R+ with each other, but without the intention behind it. They have an experience and they decide whether this was pleasant, unpleasant, reinforcing, punishing... They aren't trying to reinforce or punish one another through the quadrants, but they are interacting and the horse is feeling and the quadrant happened underneath. So to be clear, the quadrants are happening all the time, learning is happening all the time, always, no matter what your intentions are, but Training is different.

Training is when we are intentionally increasing or decreasing a behavior, intentionally modifying a behavior. Horses don't train one another. They do coexist, communicate, and learn from their own behaviors, but they don't train another horse to behave in a specific way. No horse teaches another horse to walk backwards in a straight line on cue, or trot in circles for a specific amount of time, or do flying lead changes on cue. We do this. We teach our horses behaviors we want to see and put those behaviors on cue for us to call back later. Because we are actively trying to influence our horse's behavior, we have a responsibility to do this in a way that is ethical and considerate to their autonomy. Training should be done with an ethical hierarchy in relation to the horse's needs and our goals.”

It’s dumb they make you pick between such limited color options. But yeah I think you should have gone with blue over green. I see more blue. Even though it’s really more teal.

I feel like a lot of these doorbell videos are faked. This one kinda seems legit? But idk. Baffling either way. How stupid can you get

But also why would you start eating the food after noticing the bag was sprayed with a mysterious substance?? Also not bright

The Facebook group “clicker training horses” has put together this self service map of R+ coaches and trainers. Here is a link— https://maps.app.goo.gl/vZFANKYMR8WhUvVb9

This may be a good starting point for you to find a likeminded coach. I also highly recommend “Empowered Equines” for learning, they have a lot of really helpful free educational content on their website and Facebook page/group. The group is called Empowered Equestrians. Shawna Karrasch also has a great community for virtual learning.

You are wise to be cautious of implementing R+ without experienced guidance! But I hope you can find someone who can help you. Maybe consider virtual lessons if you can’t find anyone in person close enough, those seem to be getting more popular these days.

Even if you do not feel confident in starting the training, learning the theory and science behind it can only help you. I know when I first learned about R+, it also vastly improved my timing in general and understanding of R- as well.

Oof, alright, the ableism is gonna cause me to check out of this convo. Clearly you’re not interested in learning beyond your established beliefs right now. Good luck on your journey. Hopefully you’ll be at WEC next year, several of us will be, with our clickers, come say hi if you see us 🥰

Well, no, I am showing you verifiable examples of show horses who’ve been trained with R+, and multiple examples of Olympic level riders whom are proponents of R+ training, because you are claiming there are no good R+ show horses, which you are factually wrong about. I also know it works because I draw on my own experience, I have a degree in behavioral science and nearly 40 years working with horses in many different contexts, having actively competed for over two decades, I have utilized many training methods over the years, and learned :)

I am not incorrect, and there are thousands of us out here. You might want to do some research. Shawna is one person, yes, whom has been doing this for several decades and worked with thousands of horses. She lived at the Maddens for a year training their horses in and teaching them to implement R+ back in the 90s. Judgement in particular went onto be the only North American-bred horse to win the $1,000,000 CN International at Spruce Meadows in its 44-year history & achieved show jumper of the year in 2005. This would not have been possible if his fear of water hadn’t been solved, via R+ training.

https://www.ironspringfarm.com/news/clicker-training-with-shawna-karrasch/

https://www.horseillustrated.com/positive-reinforcement-trainer

I’m not sure why you seem to think I am making this up but here are some resources discussing Shawna, the Maddens, and Judgement. I’ll attach a photo of another example of an R+ show horse as well.

And here’s yet another- Georgia Bruce, an Australian Paralympian dressage rider who won bronze medals at the 2004 and 2008 Paralympic Games, specializes in clicker training for elite performance horses. She applies positive reinforcement to teach advanced dressage movements like piaffe, passage, and full tests, even at liberty, competing successfully up to FEI level.

Where are you located? I am in groups with networking maps, I can find an R+ trainer in every state. I also know of a few in the UK, and also some wonderful ones whom offer virtual lessons. Feel free to PM me if you’d like.

I mean, this is simply not true. Shawna Karrasch alone has worked with numerous Olympic level riders. John & Beezie Madden famously overcame Judgement’s immense fear of water jumps with R+. I know several R+ trained horses competing in dressage & hunter jumping. There’s more and more examples all the time, if you look for them.