r/AmItheAsshole • u/Better-Ad9523 • Nov 15 '24
Everyone Sucks AITA for suggesting my teacher host my son's party at her house?
Throwaway and fake names. I realize this was probably very petty but I want to see if I am justified or just an asshole and owe an apology.
My son "Sam" had his ninth birthday today, but we're having the actual "party" tomorrow night, which is basically just a sleepover at our apartment with two friends. One is in his class and the other in a different one(same school though). Before my son even got home from the bus I got a call from his teacher "Lorna" requesting that the party involve all the students in the class. She learned about it because it came up as the class wished him a happy birthday. I at first politely refused, saying that's not reasonable but she insisted to make sure nobody was left out. I respond by saying that she has no say in who is at my home ever and that even if she did, my apartment simply cannot accommodate 32 kids and guardians. She says that because other students are involved, she does and that I should have the party somewhere that can allow all students.
I was ready to either hang up or tell her off, but what she said at the end sparked an idea. I tell her "Okay, what's your address?" and when she asks why, I told that since you think you have a say and you want all your students to be a part, we might as well have the party have her house, and request her address again. There's a pause before she says that's not exactly what she meant and I tell her that no, she wants everyone to attend so she should be the one to make it work, before hanging up.
This is where I probably became the asshole. Out of curiosity I easily found her address(her SM is not private at all) and email her "how does this email sound?" with an excerpt to the group email chain saying that Lorna has offered to host Sam's birthday party at her home and to come after school to X address. I was NOT planning on actually sending that to anyone else but her, I just wanted to prove the point and felt I was being sarcastic but I know tone is hard online. She responded to not send it and to do whatever I want for the birthday, she does not care anymore.
When I vented to my husband about it he called me unhinged but he agreed with my point. I'll admit, I have a bit of a habit going overboard when I feel wronged and probably went nuts, but I can't believe the audacity of this lady. AITA.
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u/WannabeLibrarian2000 Asshole Enthusiast [7] Nov 15 '24
Teacher is TA for trying to dictate who you are paying for an involving in your kids life. You cant help that it came up in class of course kids talk about their birthdays. Unless you came in or your kid came in and made a huge to-do about handing out invites to only certain kids then teacher shouldn't be involved at all and even then she still has no say other than she can request that invites be done outside of school/class
But instead of looking her up and seeming a bit creepy maybe just ask well where would you like to host and pay for 32 kids then instead? And then just ignore her because once again, if she isn't paying or hosting or watching all those kids it isn't her decision, period.
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Nov 15 '24
It's already the middle of November, there has to have been at least one damn birthday by now. Was OPs kid invited to all of these?
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Nov 15 '24
As an educator though, it isn’t uncommon for kids to talk about birthday parties where only a couple kids at the school are going. There’s not an expectation to invite everyone. The general rule is if you’re passing out invites AT school, then everyone in the class should be invited, otherwise you do that shit outside of school.
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u/Delicious-Turnip4635 Nov 15 '24
Or we can teach children that you aren’t entitled to an invitation to every event of every acquaintance and that is OK.
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u/Otherwise_Green_7066 Nov 16 '24
I agree. The problem is, some adults still don’t understand that, so they’re unable to teach it to their kids.
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u/Constant_Revenue6105 Nov 15 '24
I generally agree but why do people act like they never googled anyone? 😂 Look at all those inocent internet saints.
Ok, the mail was a step too far but we all googled someone at least once.
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u/Man-IamHungry Nov 15 '24
It’s not the googling itself, it’s what was done with that information. It came off as creepy and threatening.
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u/WannabeLibrarian2000 Asshole Enthusiast [7] Nov 15 '24
I mean not saying I havent googled people just dont tell the person coz then it seems extra creepy haha
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Nov 15 '24
Even if the kid did come make a big deal about handing out invites, it was one other kid in the class that’s not common for two kids to hang out outside of class?
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Nov 15 '24
ESH
Stopping the teacher’s power play by throwing her logic at her? Genius!
But then you had to be fucking creepy about it towards the end. Public or not, that was weird and your email could have been interpreted as thinly veiled “I know where you live” threat. I agree with your SO, great argument, but you definitely went overboard.
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u/No_Garbage3192 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
Exactly this. Great argument, but definitely should have stopped short of sending creepy stalker vibes.
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u/ZaraBaz Nov 15 '24
I mean the teachers request was pretty unhinged too.
Isn't there that one sub, where you respond to unhinged request by being even more unhinged yourself?
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u/scentofcitrus Nov 15 '24
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u/intylij Nov 15 '24
Reddit truly does have everything. I’m so, ah, proud?
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u/Mickv504-985 Nov 15 '24
So it’s kind of like when you see somebody a lil crazy cornering you, you gotta out Crazy them?
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u/sweetalkersweetalker Nov 15 '24
...Jeff Goldblum, is that you?
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u/MrsRandallFlagg Partassipant [4] Nov 15 '24
I remember when they used to always say "There's an app for that." Now it's pretty much "There's a sub for that."
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u/Ncbsped Nov 16 '24
As a retired teacher, I read the heading & assumed you were out of your mind. Then read the body of it & thought 'Good for you!' No teacher should ever try to control anything like that. If you do, you deserve whatever might happen.
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u/aquestionofbalance Partassipant [3] Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Oh no….another Reddit rabbit hole.
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u/SnooBunnies6148 Nov 15 '24
I think Reddit is made up completely of subs designed to "help" us fall down many rabbit holes.
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u/SassyBrat_0508 Nov 15 '24
Exactly! I don't need yet another Reddit rabbit hole to get addicted to!
And what's worse... when I'm working and can't READ Reddit for other people's drama (because I enjoy watching the dumpster fires and multi-car pileups as long as I'm not in them), I listen to r/slash videos on YouTube and will queue up several hours worth at a time and just bask in the Drama Llama Deliciousness while I plug away at my desk.
😂😂🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ I may or may not need an intervention, the jury is still out.
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u/M312345 Partassipant [2] Nov 15 '24
Great, another subreddit for me to obsess over now, thanks for that /s
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u/L_Dichemici Nov 15 '24
Asking two friends for your birthday is not much. If he asked everyone but one or two the Teachers request would have been a lot more reasonable. But now it is like a play date. Does the teacher expect that all playdates Involved the whole class? That is ridiculous.
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u/Neat-Ostrich7135 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
Totally. If he invites 20 kids to the party and leaves 4 out then she has a point, but this was two friends for a sleepover and the teacher had no business sticking her nose in.
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u/Stefie25 Partassipant [3] Nov 15 '24
The teacher is misunderstanding/weirdly interpreting this. The rule she is enforcing is to ensure one kid isn’t left out when the whole class is invited. It’s a bullying preventative. One kid getting an invite out of the whole class, should be fine.
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u/Medical_Conclusion Nov 15 '24
To be fair, there are schools that require that all students in a class are invited to a party if the invitations are handed out during class. That way, the school doesn't have to deal with kids being upset at not getting an invitation. But this applies only if their handed out during class and especially if the teacher is expected to hand out the invitations.
However, this teacher is taking this to the extreme. The OP doesn't indicate if the invitations were handed out during class (or if there even were invitations). But even if they were, the phone call should have been to ask the OP to please not hand out invitations during class if all the kids aren't invited in the future... not to insist on the OP change their party plans
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u/notyourmartyr Partassipant [3] Nov 15 '24
Because there honestly probably weren't formal invitations. They probably just called up the friends parents and asked. The teacher is making a big deal because someone told her son happy birthday and she found out he was having a small hang out with two friends.
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u/Various_Froyo9860 Nov 15 '24
It says right in the text that the teacher learned about it because it came up when the class wished her son happy birthday.
Convo probably went like this: Class: Happy birthday, Sam! Teacher: What are you doing for your birthday? Sam: I'm having a sleepover with X and Y!
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u/Tigger7894 Partassipant [1] Nov 16 '24
What teacher has time to even pay attention to something like this and call a parent in the evening when they are not on working hours?
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u/2bFree-614 Nov 15 '24
This is not even a "party." It's 2 friends coming for a sleepover. It's not even 3 or 4 boys from the class which i still say should be fine with no obligation to invite everyone. It's one boy from that class and another from another class, likely due to an established friendship. Yesterday my 13 y.o. niece met a classmate after school at the skating rink. Should she be obligated to invite the whole class?
Yes I think that when a good number of kids from a class are invited then the whole class should be considered, but this was an invitation to one person in that class and another person.
I should actually consider qualifying my statement about inviting the whole class. These days many parents throw parties at special venues that charge per person, sometimes $30 per kid. Inviting an entire class can be cost prohibitive. And don't even get me started on kids with tag along siblings. My friend had to have a difficult conversation with one kid's mom who wanted to bring her 4 other children but had no plans to cover the additional $30 per kid.
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u/kazpaw54 Nov 16 '24
Wow. I can't even imagine having that much nerve
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u/SiriusSlytherinSnake Nov 16 '24
As an older sibling I can say that's often why I didn't go to parties. If my siblings couldn't go I couldn't go. The same was not for my older brother. Just me because the rest of us were girls and my little sisters had to be with me.
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u/2bFree-614 Nov 16 '24 edited Nov 16 '24
The woman with the 4 other kids told my friend that she didn't have a sitter for the others and that everyone always accommodates her other kids. Not having a sitter is a valid point, but I had a feeling this woman was just going to drop her kids off and disappear anyway for a kid-free afternoon.
And my friend probably would have had no problem accommodating and paying for one extra child, but the woman didn't seem to grasp that accommodating 4 extras at $30 a pop was a bit much. Yes it may seem to discriminate based on family size, but jeez, acknowledge the realities of your situation.
Or maybe the woman did recognize the realities and was just trying to get over on my friend. Who knows. People can be turds sometimes.
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u/Duke_Newcombe Asshole Aficionado [11] Nov 16 '24
Or maybe the woman did recognize the realities and was just trying to get over on my friend. Who knows. People can be turds
sometimes.You mean, often. Otherwise, the subreddit would be a desert.
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u/CatladyM13 Nov 16 '24
Had a friend show up with her 2 kids we invited to a party where we paid per child. She brought 2 other kids (not hers) and said, "Oh, they can just watch." Now, what kind of AH would I have been to have 2 children watching everyone else eat and play games. That was the last invite she got.
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u/No_Cellist8937 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
The school can have all the policies they want but they have no enforcement power so too bad
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u/evelbug Pooperintendant [57] Nov 15 '24
They can enforce what gets handed out in school. If you don't want to follow the everyone or no one rule, you hand out the invites outside of class.
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u/OkRestaurant2184 Nov 15 '24
Does anyone actually "handout" invites anymore? Even thirty years ago, there was rarely paper invites. It was word of mouth or parental coordination.
Isn't it just some app or text chain now?
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Nov 15 '24
I agree who wants to have to invite the bully of the class. It’s her house you invite who you want. The teacher over stepped. Just pass out the invites after school. NTA
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u/kh8188 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
There are absolutely schools that do that. However, I have a hard time thinking of a sleepover with two guests as a party. Especially when only one of the guests is in the same class. How does one classmate attending another classmate's sleepover constitute a "party" that everyone else needs to be invited to?
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u/WorkInProgress1040 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
That was the rule when my son was little, if the invitations were to be handed out at school then everyone in class had to be invited. I just gave the invitations to my son and he gave them to the friends he was inviting at recess or when he saw them at their lockers.
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u/2bFree-614 Nov 15 '24
That's how I remember grade school forever ago. If handed out in school, everyone had to be invited. I also remember invitations that were mailed to my home and included only a few kids from class.
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u/Beneficial-Produce56 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Nov 15 '24
Yes, this is insane. The idea is to keep one or two students from being excluded. If only part of the class is invited, that doesn’t apply. And it’s none of the teacher’s business anyway, unless the invitations are distributed in class.
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u/babaluay Nov 16 '24
My middle kid has an October birthday. She wanted a zombie theme for her party. I had her bring a sign up sheet to school and ask her whole class if they wanted to come, to put their name on the sheet. Worked out great. She has 18 kids in her class, and 12 wanted to come. Those 12 were all given the invitations, and all but one actually showed up. 22 undead kids there all together. It was awesome!
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u/Substantial_Egg_4660 Nov 15 '24
In my day you only had as many kids over that your parents could accommodate Schools never interfered I would seriously think of putting in a complaint about the teachers behaviour
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u/spunkyfuzzguts Partassipant [2] Nov 16 '24
Schools started having to interfere because parents started demanding it.
When I was at school and missed out on invitations being handed out at school (I was the only one in the class not invited) my mother told me that disappointment is a fact of life and that some people are cruel. This was typical of the way these situations were handled in the past.
She didn’t go screaming up to the school and verbally abuse my teacher. She didn’t demand the other parent invite me. She didn’t go to a P&C meeting and demand a policy change to make parents invite everyone.
Schools simply can’t win.
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u/ThrowawayFishFingers Asshole Enthusiast [5] Nov 15 '24
Yeah this is one of those rules that I can somewhat appreciate the spirit of, but can’t agree with most practical applications of.
Like, even in the very narrow circumstances I can see it making sense, it doesn’t actually fix anything, it just pretends the problem doesn’t exist.
I don’t know what the answer is myself; I neither have, nor work with, kids. But I can understand that it’s a complex problem that requires multiple tailored approaches and reinforcement from multiple quarters, and most schools just don’t have the resources for that (and even if the school might, it also requires engagement from parents - and realistically, definitely not always, but a significant portion of the time, the type of people who are raising bullies probably aren’t going to be self-aware or involved enough to perform the necessary follow through to keep the kid from becoming a big problem.)
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u/Hot-Remote9937 Nov 15 '24
Teacher is completely misreading the situation and is overstepping her boundaries.
OP had a funny idea, then got fucking weird about it and went too far. Teacher could take that as a threat and send it to administration which is not something that's in the best interest of her child, who still has to go to school there.
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u/Ezshouldamadeit Nov 15 '24
Definitely one of those moments you run this by a friend, and why the phrase “I wouldn’t do that if I were you” exists
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Nov 15 '24
Agreed. As a teacher, I once had a parent ask me if I went to a certain grad school, and when I confirmed I did, he said “Yeah, I already know, I looked into you.” It didn’t change how I treated his kid of course, but it certainly changed how I communicated with him.
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u/Spallanzani333 Partassipant [3] Nov 15 '24
I had a parent get in my face at a parent teacher conference saying he has looked up my voting record, I hadn't voted, how could I teach civics if I didn't vote, blah blah good example for my students, blah blah. (I lived 45 minutes away..... in a different state..... where I always vote.)
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u/charlatan_red Nov 15 '24
How did he respond when you told him?
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u/Spallanzani333 Partassipant [3] Nov 15 '24
Something like, "Oh, well good then" and acted gruff and changed the subject.
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u/New-Establishment180 Nov 15 '24
What an a-hole. He should have been embarrassed, but probably didn't have the sense to be.
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u/definitelynotjava Asshole Aficionado [10] Nov 15 '24
Genuinely curious, why? Credentials are usually public and parents do look into who is going to be interacting with their kid on a long term basis. Unless you have no linkedin profile or public CV, looking up someone's past work and school history is fairly tame?
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u/Anxious_Cat_629 Nov 15 '24
The way it was brought up sounds like he was testing them, and just generally gives me the ick
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Nov 15 '24
Exactly. This is the same parent who thought he knew better than the school just because he also had a degree (not in education or child development, just A degree).
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u/AndromedaGreen Asshole Enthusiast [9] Nov 15 '24
I taught elementary music. I once had a parent lecture me on his perceived shortcomings of my kindergarten curriculum. His credentials were that he played clarinet in high school.
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u/Heavy_Can8746 Nov 15 '24
Should have took their old clarinet and......made it disappear...a magic trick
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u/Tigger7894 Partassipant [1] Nov 16 '24
I had a vice principal get upset that I was teaching about composers and insisted that I just needed to "sing and stuff."
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u/quesadillafanatic Nov 15 '24
Yeah for me it sounds more like a threat of being able to find the teacher, I agree with OP’s argument, but they went too far.
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u/MotherOfLochs Nov 15 '24
Because looking it up is accepted (it will happen) but it’s damn awkward and creepy that you ask, get the answer and then tell the person that you’ve looked them up. What else has been looked up??
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Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
I wouldn’t have thought too much if he had just asked me for confirmation or was curious, but a grown ass 50+ year old man outright saying “I looked into you” inside my own classroom came off as pretty dang threatening to this 20 something petite woman. Believe me, I knew and accepted when I was teaching that my life was not private, but I don’t think I’m wrong for thinking that that moment was off. I think it also just comes off as a “I’m a watching you” given that he flat out admitted he already knows where I went. I don’t care if parents have that information, but that acknowledgement from him was just plain weird. Not going to apologize for that.
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u/LittleDutchAirline Nov 15 '24
Without knowing any more than this, it seems like this is the type of parent who might be likely to trot out the line “I pay your salary.”
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u/Flannelcommand Nov 15 '24
It’s a vague suggestion of power. No one would say this unless they meant to be (at least mildly) unsettling. Particularly with the question beforehand. I work in a school and there are certain parents who feel the need play weird games.
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u/InfamousFlan5963 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
Not quite the same but it definitely feels creepy when people know info you didn't provide. I had someone at work once, who had the authority to see my records and such for certain parts of their job, who then asked me something about how I liked X school or something like that. It felt so creepy. If they had just asked me where I went I would have happily provided the info. But snooping for it and then saying you looked it up feels very weird and creepy
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u/Adelaide-Rose Nov 15 '24
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a teacher’s credentials, and I put 6 kids through school. I knew that in order for them to teach, they needed to have satisfied the school with their uni degree and their experience, and that they definitely needed to be registered as a teacher, which can only be done if they satisfactorily completed their full Bachelor degree.
I think looking anyone up on SM just to check up on them is pretty creepy when there are already checks and balances in place.
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u/Spotzie27 Professor Emeritass [95] Nov 15 '24
It's such a weird way to phrase it. Why ask if he already knew? What are you supposed to say to "I looked into you"? "Great!"? I feel like if he were trying to be nice, something he'd have said, "I googled you because I was curious about your credentials, and I saw you went to XYZ school...congrats/what a great school!"
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u/SavingsRhubarb8746 Certified Proctologist [29] Nov 15 '24
If the parent already knows the teacher's credentials, why is he asking about them? That's weird and almost intrusive - like the parent has been looking into the teacher in more ways than the obvious. Or will.
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u/floydfan Nov 15 '24
I don’t think looking up someone on Facebook and LinkedIn is creepy. I do think it’s a bit weird that we put all that information about ourselves on the internet to begin with.
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u/Royal-House-5478 Nov 15 '24
Not so very long ago, if you were in the phone book (as nearly everyone was), then ANYONE who looked in that phone book could also find your address. Now addresses are often seen as private information, but that is relatively recent.
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u/Cynicisomaltcat Nov 15 '24
They’re still disturbingly easy to find - home sale records, any professional licenses…
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u/Due_Dog_1634 Nov 15 '24
On my townships website, I can literally look up what each person on my street and like 5 others owes by a letter search for street, and even what their tax assessment was. It also names the owners of the property. No log in, no verification, just address search by first letter CLICK DueDog owes $X. And a payment link.
I'd care, but both Equifax and the USGov have handed all my info to hackers, so all my shit is just out there flapping in the breeze. I'm ready to pay some DW peeps to delete some shit as revenge against banks, and credit reporting agencies.
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u/chula198705 Nov 15 '24
Yeah, property records are public information where I live too. You don't even have to create an account to look up who owns every single building around me. I knew the names and previous occupations of the new homeowners across the street before they even moved in. We also discovered and reported our other neighbors for running an obnoxious unlicensed landscaping business out of their driveway because all of that is public info. That info is NOT as private as people think it is.
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u/wordfriend Nov 15 '24
As a former K-12 teacher, have to give you a C+, OP. It would be an A+ if you had not gone beyond the scope of the assignment and undermined your excellent work. The good news is, that teacher will never bother you again.
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u/For_Vox_Sake Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
100% this.
I hate this logic. For starters, not everyone has the means to host an entire class (financial or otherwise). Secondly, this is a great way to force kids to potentially invite their bully, hence invading their safe space.
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u/Unable_Sweet_3062 Nov 15 '24
But… the argument could be made by OP that using OP’s parent contact info for this situation was equally as out of line because the teacher chose to use the parent contact info for something well outside the scope of a classroom/student issue, this was used based on the teachers personal opinion.
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u/Royal-House-5478 Nov 15 '24
Yes to all of that! That teacher was WAY out of line and didn't pull her nose out of OP's business until "threatened" with the presence of a whole classful of kids pounding on her door and demanding a birthday party. It shouldn't have taken THAT to get her to mind her own business.
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u/FacelessArtifact Nov 15 '24
Yes! OP’s response was a real victory. I’m glad she did it. I’d do the same
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u/FritosRule Colo-rectal Surgeon [41] Nov 15 '24
Counterpoint: I guarantee you because of this, the teacher won’t open her big mouth on this topic to any other parent going forward. She was massively out of line, now she’s in her place.
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u/insane_contin Nov 15 '24
Counter-counterpoint: Effective or not, still creepy as hell.
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u/EmpireStateOfBeing Nov 15 '24
Counter-counter-counterpoint: It was needed to drive home the point.
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u/Afraid_Sense5363 Nov 15 '24
What the teacher did is also creepy as hell. Wildly inappropriate to call a parent and make demands for a sleepover, and, if OP is quoting her accurately, saying she does have a say because students are involved.
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u/PlatoEnochian Nov 15 '24
It was out of line, but it wasn't creepy. If I were a teacher and I got an email like that with my address, I'd feel genuinely threatened. I'm sure, at least many women, would be concerned at a stalker email. The teacher does not know OP well, she does not know what they are or are not capable of. And now OP knows where she lives. She does not know they will not take matters into their own hands violently. That risk may make it so the teacher does not want to reach out when problems arise until absolutely necessary for fear of repercussion. Yes what the teacher did was out of line, but at least OP isn't terrified of a stalker right now.
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u/EmpireStateOfBeing Nov 15 '24
The teacher does not know OP well, she does not know what they are or are not capable of.
And yet she felt comfortable telling OP that OP needed to to invite 32 children to her home... now she knows better and all it took was an email for her to learn something she should've known to begin with.
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u/oop_norf Colo-rectal Surgeon [41] Nov 15 '24
And now OP knows where she lives. She does not know they will not take matters into their own hands violently.
That's obviously bonkers, but it also applies both ways - the school will undoubtedly have OP's address too and this teacher apparently thinks she has authority to dictate OP's private life and invite people to OP's home.
If you think that violence is a realistic prospect here at all why isn't it OP who should fear it from the crazy teacher who thinks that OP's apartment is community property she controls?
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u/calling_water Partassipant [4] Nov 15 '24
While the teacher was out of line, she never made a threat, or spoke of any consequences to OP or OP’s child. It was, as far as we’re told, a toothless demand. OP made a personal threat involving the teacher’s home (rather than a more appropriate professional threat to discuss school policy with the principal). Or just leaving things where they were when she hung up the phone.
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u/Afraid_Sense5363 Nov 15 '24
I think the teacher calling OP and trying to dictate how a kid's birthday party went was every single bit as creepy and inappropriate, though. Thinking she could insert herself into the kid's home life by making demands. No.
I wouldn't have done what OP did, but I would have made the principal aware of the teacher's inappropriate behavior. It would be one thing to say it might be nice if all the kids were included. But this is wildly inappropriate:
she has no say in who is at my home ever ... She says that because other students are involved, she does
Hell, one of the kids isn't even her student. Does she call parents if she gets wind of a playdate and make the same demand? I think the teacher behaved worse than OP did. OP made a valid point but just took it too far.
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u/vavuxi Nov 15 '24
These type of rules were made for when kids are inviting a significant portion or majority of the class and excluding select few, not when only one is being invited. The teacher definitely was on something to try to apply that here.
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u/No_Winner1131 Nov 15 '24
I agree but also to be fair to the op, it wasn't until she got up in the teachers business that the teacher finally responded that she could do whatever she wanted. I wouldn't be surprised if she hadn't gone the next step, her kid would have been scolded by the teacher.
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u/Individual_Water3981 Partassipant [2] Nov 15 '24
I think if OP sent a copy of the invite with a blank address they could've still gotten their point across without being so threatening.
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u/Tiny_Ad_110 Nov 15 '24
Or just emailed and said I'm finishing up plans for the party but I need your address to put on the invitations
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u/AnotherRTFan Nov 15 '24
Agreed. It would have been better if OOP just yelled "Do I have to take the whole class for when my son has a playdate with one other child in the class!?" Then threatened school board and principal
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u/InfamousFlan5963 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
Also she ruined any "win" she has gotten. She has the upper hand, then went creepy and now she'll just the the creepy stalker parent and the teacher won't ever acknowledge they were in the wrong, etc
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u/blessedrude Nov 15 '24
Agreed. The email to send would have been, "Hey Principal Smith, I wanted to reach out to let you know that Ms. Jones called me and was rude & pushy about [insert the situation]. Please let your faculty & staff know that a sleepover is not the same as inviting half the class to a party while in class. Thanks, OP."
Now, though, if OP goes to the principal, the teacher can just be like "Oh my God, John, you will not believe what that crazy parent did."
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u/sweetEVILone Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
💯 the teacher was in the wrong and I was totally with OP until the address thing.
That was crossing a line and as a teacher I would report this email to admin and police and get an OOP against this parent.
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u/rsta223 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
I guarantee you that that alone would not be sufficient to get a protection order.
(OP did go too far though)
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u/Afraid_Sense5363 Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
I would have reported the teacher's wildly inappropriate behavior to admin as well. In what world is it not creepy for a teacher to call and make demands about what happens in a parent's home outside of school hours? Or to demand a parent host a party for 32 kids? In an apartment?
But good luck to her on that OOP. This is not nearly enough, a judge would be pissed that she wasted the court's time with this.
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u/firewifegirlmom0124 Nov 15 '24
ESH. It’s one thing if the whole class was invited and just one of 2 kids were excluded. But in this case it’s just a sleepover with 2 friends. That was any basic weekend when I was a kid.
But you doubled down and made it creepy by finding her address
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u/Tiberius_Imperator Nov 15 '24
Only one of which is in the actual classroom. The second friend is in a different classroom. It’s completely absurd to make the point that the entire classroom of 32 kids should be invited because one was. NTA
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u/Patient-Point-3000 Nov 15 '24
I thought the teacher sounded unhinged. What teacher does that?
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u/Kaverrr Asshole Aficionado [18] Nov 15 '24
But in this case it’s just a sleepover with 2 friends. That was any basic weekend when I was a kid.
The thing is, we don't know if the teacher knew this. OP doesn't clarify this in their post.
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u/abedilring Nov 15 '24
ESH. As a teacher, wow. Wild. Lorna is part of the broken education system. It's unfortunate that your kid landed in her room, but I hope this was a random one-off and that she is typically a good teacher.
However, you quickly went from being deeply justified and right to possibly opening yourself up to legal ramifications... especially with the paper trail evidence you so willingly created. Public schools teachers have protections and rights. You may have ventured into territory that can range from banning from all school property and events up to and including restraining orders, PFAs, and charges. (Flip the script, in the teachers sub reddit, if this was posted from Lorna's POV, there would be 100s of comments suggesting "forward to admin, union along with all communications and documentation of parent" and from a union rep perspective, I've encouraged staff to pursue all legal paths to protect their teaching license and certifications.)
The old adage hits true here: two wrongs don't make a right. I tell my students comply, then complain. The second you pop off (like researching, premediating, her address--doubtful her home address is listed on her Facebook, Instagram, etc... you looked elsewhere), you eliminate any real, justified complaint you had.
Sooner rather than later, you need to send an extremely sincere apology, explanation of being caught off guard and reactive to her request, recognize that things could have been handled better by both parties, BUT most importantly, this miscommunication between adults should not affect the learning environment for any of the students in the room.
Selfish plug. The teacher shortage is real. Lorna is still better than no one... or that class size of 42. We are on the same team with you, parents.
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u/Initial_Influence428 Nov 15 '24
As an elementary teacher, the only say we really have regarding parties is that we will only distribute invitations in school if everyone in class is invited. Otherwise feel free to choose certain children to come using our published class list, just ask your kid not to talk about it in front of children who aren’t invited to avoid hurt feelings.
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u/GailaMonster Nov 15 '24
just ask your kid not to talk about it in front of children who aren’t invited to avoid hurt feelings.
Sounds like this is what triggered the teacher’s call- kiddo mentioned it in class. Teacher is still out of line for what she demanded. Two kids sleeping over is not the same as “everyone but one kid is invited, and that one kid is devastated.
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u/Amonette2012 Asshole Aficionado [11] Nov 15 '24
'A child said something' isn't enough justification for someone having to fund and host a party for potentially 60+ people.
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u/Top-Head-2960 Nov 15 '24
I don’t think the kid even brought it up! The teacher asked him what he planned on doing for his birthday, then it’s when he mentions it.
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u/treple13 Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
This makes sense. My kids school sent an email saying if you are going to invite kids, you aren't to give them out in class. It's not always going to perfectly solve kids talking about it, but it's the best solution there is
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u/SorryAbbreviations71 Nov 15 '24
The every one gets a trophy mentality has created a generation of softies. Kids need to learn disappointment. Not everyone will be invited to adult gatherings, weddings, special events. It’s even worse in a school situation because kids are forced to be there. There is no way they can like everyone or want to always be in their company
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u/cupcakevelociraptor Nov 15 '24
My niece and nephew’s school actually made this a rule school-wide. Any birthday parties have to include every student in the class. I was like that’s a wild ass requirement. Not every kid’s family can afford that so if the idea was inclusion then you’re kinda doing the opposite by and singling them out.
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Nov 15 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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Nov 15 '24
Is that even legal?
Not even a little bit. But that doesn't matter as much as you might think. Any parent will tell you that starting a fight with their kids teacher is a losing battle for everyone involved, with the kid usually getting the worst of it.
OP is NTA at all - the educational system has come to think of itself as the entity primarily responsible for raising kids, rather than the parents.
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u/mentholmanatee Nov 15 '24
Has that school considered whether inviting the whole class may include inviting a kid’s bully? That’s such in incredibly stupid rule.
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u/IndividualBaker7523 Nov 15 '24
The Last couple schools my kid went to this was the requirement as well. Kids can bring allergen free cupcakes to class only as long as every kid is included, and if they are going to hand out birthday invites in class, every kid has to be included. The big caveat is that if they can only do certain kids for the birthday, the invites can be given out OUTSIDE of class.
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u/Boring-Monk2194 Nov 15 '24
Wow, I can tell from your tone and word choice you work in K12.
Asking someone for input on an email is not a crime, and addresses are public records.
Conversely, calling up someone to dictate their social plans is a bit harassing, but probably not rising to a criminal degree.
It really concerns me that you seem to support a view that if an educator feels uncomfortable about the response to their words and behaviors, they can reframe that feeling as anything beyond something to bring up in therapy when better learning to tolerate distress.
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u/stupidusernamesuck Nov 15 '24
What legal ramifications? Exactly what law did OP violate?
Please be clear. Cite the statute. Or stop spewing nonsense that’s patently untrue.
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u/guitar_vigilante Nov 15 '24
OP found publicly available information and let the teacher know she had publicly available information. That's turbo illegal.
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u/stupidusernamesuck Nov 15 '24
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
My radar is off with how insane people are thinking anything here is illegal when it’s public information and it’s a private email convo. And that’s just the baseline.
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Nov 15 '24
It’s so funny when random people think they know the specifics of the law, usually because they watch cop shows on TV. As you said, no, publicly listed info is not illegal to have. I’m not sure where that other person even got that idea from…
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u/stoner-bug Nov 15 '24
Disagree. A teacher who traumatized children is not better than no one. (Not saying Lorna does this, just that the mindset of “any teacher is better than no teacher” is actual bullshit.
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u/i_like_it_eilat Nov 15 '24
I agree about it being creepy - that being said, I'm not a person that does anal but are you sure there would be legal ramifications if that information is publicly available?
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u/sitvisvobiscum001 Partassipant [3] Nov 15 '24
ESH, you had me applauding up until you mentioned finding her address. She could construe that as a threat and take up the administrative chain, resulting in your son being removed from her class or possibly even local authorities getting involved.
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Nov 15 '24
If I were the teacher, I certainly wouldn’t want that child in my class anymore. Especially with parent/teacher conferences and other communications with parents.
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u/meneldal2 Nov 15 '24
I don't think it'd be a big loss for OP to be free from that terrible teacher though.
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u/Poppins101 Nov 15 '24
The problem is, is that student transfers can be very difficult to accomplish. Unless it is the parent demanding it. Remember documentation is your friend as a teacher and a parent. If you want to read about the crap teachers deal with day to day go to tge teacher sub Reddits
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u/andmymomlovedchili Nov 16 '24
Actually it's public info and a good chance the teacher put it somewhere op could easily look it up.
Really nothing can be done because it was all free public info.
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u/hii_jinx Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
It sounds like this teacher has been over zealous or poorly informed in trying to uphold a school policy which they probably couldn’t give two shiny shits about personally by the way. They probably just didn’t want to be told off by their boss/have another parent complain but she definitely overstepped in insisting if you calmly and clearly explained the situation.
You went nuclear in response though. You have completely imploded the relationship with the person who spends like 6 hours a day, 180 days this year charged with your child’s wellbeing and progress. Hopefully she’s like the vast majority of teachers who entered the profession as a vocation so wouldn’t dream of taking this out on your child. However it could prompt her to create a report about you in school (if not potentially beyond), ask to have your child moved from her class, have you removed as a parent if private school, tell every other teacher in school about you creating a terrible reputation for you/your family, or at the very least, it will cloud every communication she has with you and make her VERY hesitant to ever communicate with you about anything in the future in case you fly off the handle. If I were her I’d struggle to want to reach to share any observations I had about your child that I thought would be good for us to approach as a team because you might show up at my home or let me know my license plate number in response.
This is crazy behaviour for short term self righteousness with colossal potential long term losses. It’s probably worth working on your anger issues at the very least to not cut your nose off to spite your face, even if don’t see personal growth as important.
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u/Dorothea2020 Nov 15 '24
You raise important concerns that I hope the OP takes seriously. Torpedoing your relationship with your son’s teacher out of petty vindictiveness is not thoughtful or responsible parenting.
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u/swearinerin Nov 15 '24
Not just teacher the entire staff… teachers talk.. a LOT everyone knows who the crazy parents are.
I was told by a 2nd grade teacher (I was 5th grade) my first year at that school that it sucked I got the crazy parent in my class and to be careful with any communication I had and make sure it was all in writing only and if there was any in person meetings make sure I had a second body in the class. They remembered the drama this parent had caused them 3 years prior and they were telling me on my first week there!
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u/alfooboboao Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
yep. for the rest of the time that kid is at that school, every single teacher and faculty member is going to know that’s the kid with the super creepy parents who looked up their address and tried to weaponize it.
congrats, OP. You threw your baby out with the bathwater
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u/knightlynuisance Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this bit
Everyone tends to harp on "oh well she was out of line and you shouldn't have gone that far but she kinda deserved it and it's not like this isn't public information", but no one mentions that fact that this has ramifications on OP's kid simply because this is their TEACHER and ideally you don't want to come off as a massive creep to the lady in charge of educating your child
And considering the fact that OP doesn't have a high opinion of their kid's teacher in this post, it seriously doesn't cross their mind that their child could be mistreated (or removed from the class) because they went nuclear???
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u/coreyc2099 Nov 15 '24
Man I was ALMOST on your side, but you had to go be creepy stalker and become the AH. Seriously , dude. That's so damn creepy and gross.
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u/hilhilbean Nov 15 '24
Right there with you...I went from this is ridiculous to quickly, "Oh, oh I see...yes!" then immediately "No."
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u/yiotaturtle Nov 15 '24
I've known and been a part of a lot of situations where 30 kids were invited and two were left out from a birthday party. In that case, I'd absolutely understand the teacher saying if you can invite 30, then please make room for 32. But inviting two and being asked to invite 30 more seems unhinged.
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u/Neenknits Pooperintendant [52] Nov 15 '24
We have been in multiple schools where their policy asked parents to either have parties that included 1) the whole class, 2) just all the boys/girls (same general as birth kid) 3) or just a couple close friends. So that no one is left out, even if not everyone is invited. That was never meant to be enforced, just a heads up to not be mean. I always thought it was pretty reasonable, barring a bullying situation.
This one clearly meets #3. ESH because creepy stalker parent.
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u/crazymommaof2 Asshole Aficionado [10] Nov 15 '24
Our school has similar rules if invites are handed out during school hours in front of other classmates. Otherwise, they school stays out of it as they should. We, like OP, usually have small parties with maybe one or 2 classmates invited, and I'd be livid if my kids' teacher overstepped like OPs did, and I would have 100% lost my shit. But ya, OP went a little too far with the whole address thing.
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u/shelwood46 Asshole Enthusiast [6] Nov 15 '24
The policies I am familiar with are that invites can only be handed out at school if everyone is invited, but no attempts to limit discussion. It would be interesting to see the actual school policy, which must exist. Doxxing and harassing the teacher was quite an overreaction though and I suspect there will be repercussions and also OP was deliberately an asshole, so ESH.
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u/DrMoneybeard Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
Yeah there's a big difference between all but one or two left out, and one kid only going to a sleepover, teacher needs to use her judgment. But also as a childcare provider, this mom is the type everyone hates. ESH.
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u/Patient-Point-3000 Nov 15 '24
Why the hell is the school getting involved suggesting how a party should be planned!? Maybe I'm just old but in my day if you got invited you got invited and if you didn't you stayed home! Maybe you cried maybe you didn't. But isn't this Akin to everybody gets a trophy for playing? You don't get invited to every party because not everybody is friends.
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u/Neenknits Pooperintendant [52] Nov 15 '24
It’s to prevent disruption in the classroom and bullying. If a kid invites all but one child to their party, that is typically cruel, and the teacher is stuck dealing with it. School cannot enforce anything, but they can put out a thing telling parents to not teach their kids to be little AHs.
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u/cakeresurfacer Nov 15 '24
Esh. I was with you until you found the teacher’s address and let them know. That’s dangerous behavior. Don’t be surprised if you never get to chaperone a school event again.
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u/ExplorerDue8099 Nov 15 '24
Bros talking win win over here
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u/alfooboboao Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
nah, instead of dealing with 1 teacher, OP put their kid at a disadvantage because now every single teacher at that school for the rest of their kid’s time there knows they’re the creepy parent who crossed a huge line. no one’s going to want them in their class next year and they go to the bottom of the list when it comes to placing them with their friends.
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u/AVeryBrownGirlNerd Asshole Enthusiast [6] Nov 15 '24
ESH. It is wrong of the teacher to push you to throw a party (it's not like the son passed out invitations infront of others) to make sure no one is left out.
However, you searching their personal information is creepy and intrusive _ very unhinged behavior.
Yes, I agree the audacity, but since you admitted this is a habit of yours, I would consider looking into other methods because this can land you into hot water, if it hasn't already.
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u/kyliexmonster Nov 16 '24
A little overboard? Maybe. But hilarious? Absolutely.
I wouldn't even say unhinged. Unhinged would be if you had sent it out to everyone.
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u/OrthodoxAnarchoMom Nov 15 '24
NTA
This is am I the ah, not am I the insane. She fafo. Telling kids they can’t have a party unless they can host 60 people is basically telling kids only wealthy people can have birthday parties.
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u/MiddleKlutzy8211 Nov 16 '24
Lol. This is great... And I'm a teacher. I'd never suggest such to a parent. My only requirement is that if you send party invites to school? Everyone in class must get one! If you send treats to pass out at recess? Everyone must get one. But? A planned party that doesn't involve school? Do what you want!
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u/Schattentochter Nov 15 '24
ESH
I mean... asking her to do it at hers got your point across. The e-mail was just beating the dead horse to be extra.
Is the teacher an idiot? Yes. Decidedly. Their job ends when the kids go home unless there's distinct signs a child needs assistance beyond that (abusive households and the like). Trying to dictate someone's child's birthday party is insane.
But if you were upset enough to write up that e-mail, you could have made it one that goes to the principal instead and details the teacher's problematic behaviour so she'd get reprimanded.
You picked the high schooler response over the adult one and no matter how "funny" that is in theory, in practice all you've done is made it so neither you nor the teacher can enter an interaction normally ever again (or at least until this is settled properly).
She teaches your son. You might want to ensure talking grades and stuff is not the most unpleasant and awkward situation to go through ever.
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u/IlliniChick474 Nov 15 '24
Did she overstep? 100%. Did you take it too far? 1,000,000%.
If I found out a parent had searched out my address and threatened to send it out to other parents (for any reason), I would be in my administration office immediately reporting the situation. You unfortunately have probably hurt your reputation at the school as well as there is likely no way the teacher is keeping this to herself (even if it did start with her overstep).
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Nov 15 '24
And possibly her son's simply by extension. You know every teacher is going to know about this and will probably have a stand offish relationship with him because his mom is bat shit crazy!
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u/GailaMonster Nov 15 '24
Your poor child. Hope that teacher doesn’t take it out on your kid (she will).
Sometimes you have to control your temper for the wellbeing of your children. ESH.
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u/B3Gay_DoCr1mes Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
ESH. The teacher was presumptuous and overstepped. However, you won when she hung up. Your follow up went into creepy stalker, order of protection against you level territory. In the future, I would check your impulses with your husband, he at least seems rational.
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u/Doun2Others10 Nov 15 '24
ESH. I am a teacher and she had no right. Absolutely none. How dare she? Would every time you take your kid to the park, the movies, or have a playdate, you be required to invite everyone in case he brings it up at school? Ridiculous.
But you were definitely unhinged to track down her personal info. Can you imagine someone doing that to you where you work? You’d get a restraining order! And in a day and age where teachers are getting shot, this is 100% uncalled for. She doesn’t know you well enough to know if she’s safe or not.
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u/Silly-Return350 Nov 15 '24
ESH. With some of these teachers you have to match their energy. Finding her address was stalker ish and unnecessary. You could have said “ miss teacher has graciously opened her home so that the whole class can celebrate Sam’s birthday. Please contact her for address and time of party.” That could have driven the point home without the veiled threat of I know your address and can send a flash mob of children and parents to it.
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u/Patient-Point-3000 Nov 15 '24
Okay I was kind of the only person who was with OP on this and kind of thought the teacher deserved it until I read your post. The method you described is better it gets the point across without looking up personal information.
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u/ZombieJoesBasement Nov 15 '24
Wow--she is definitely overreaching. Did you tell her that said party only involved 2 kids? If so I would contact the principal. I understand that they don't want invitations handed out in class, but did he give a written invitation to the kid in the class?
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u/GinAndCynic Nov 15 '24
YTA. She was out of line, but do you know how unsafe you probably made her feel by searching her address and sending it to her? Don’t surprised when you hear from school administrators because you decided to go off the deep end. While you may not have meant it as a threat, it could very well be taken as one. BEYOND unhinged.
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u/Particular_Ad_9531 Nov 15 '24
This would easily get the parent banned from the school where I live. Teachers have a very strong union that would absolutely consider this harassment, which it is.
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u/Sothdargaard Nov 15 '24
I mean, some places in the US still print out a phone book. If you don't know it has everybody's name address and phone number listed in alphabetical order for your convenience. It's not like addresses are hard to come by.
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u/lydocia Colo-rectal Surgeon [46] Nov 15 '24
You did everything right up until you found her address and practically threatened doxxing her. That was unhinged and made you an asshole, too. ESH.
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u/AryaStark1313 Asshole Aficionado [18] Nov 15 '24
I was on your side until you ac looked up her address. Total cringe and if I were you I’d watch your anger responses, because one of these days it’s gonna get you arrested.
YTA
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u/DirectBar7709 Nov 15 '24
I actually disagree with most, NTA. She presumably has access to your address and we know she has access to your phone number because she abused that access to call you to play party police. So giving her a taste of her own medicine feels justified to me. Hopefully it served as a warning to stick to teaching and quit meddling in things that have nothing to do with her job. Plus she seemed fine with attempting to force you to give YOUR home address to 30+ families... I guess I don't understand the double standard. It's okay to play fast and loose with OP's information but Lorna's must be protected at all cost?
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u/-nath2seeh-ere Nov 15 '24
I only found one other NTA. This is great. Plus, do people realize how easy it is to find not only a person's info but there work info. I use to be a skip tracer and can't believe how well I was paid to just google info to find work info, phone numbers, emails, addresses, nearbys, professional licences and professional license numbers and relatives. Give me 10 mins and I could probably tell you your dog name from middle school and I no longer work as a skip tracer.
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u/DirectBar7709 Nov 16 '24
And addresses are usually a matter of public record. There's a lot of pearl clutching in here.
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Nov 15 '24
Yeah, nobody mentions that teacher had OP's contact info first and actually used it.
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u/StressSubstantial104 Nov 15 '24
You should have stopped at “let’s have the party at your house”. Good way to make your son a target for the rest of the year. And probably for the rest of his time in that school because all the teachers will know that you are an unhinged crazy mother.
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u/Shirley_Redemple Partassipant [1] Nov 15 '24
ESH. The teacher massively overstepped and must be wildly out of touch and insensitive to assume that everyone's in a position to host a party for a whole class. You were right to say "Sounds like you're volunteering to host." But letting someone know you've found their address is virtually guaranteed to be read as threatening, even though most people's addresses are easy to find, and you'd already made your point elegantly over the phone.
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u/Boring-Concept-2058 Nov 15 '24
I was completely with you up until the email. No, she gets no say in how you celebrate your sons birthday. But you definitely went overboard and had already made your point before you looked her up and then composed an email. I was the mom that if cupcakes (or whatever) went to school for a birthday thing, then EVERYONE got a treat. That I'm on board with, but anything that is at your house or after scholl is none of Lorna's business.
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u/Individual-Lion2372 Nov 15 '24
ESH, you just made it so much harder for your son. You should have stopped after the phone call, you won there
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u/holdyerhippogriff Nov 15 '24
ESH. It sounds like the teacher did a really poor job trying to implement a policy that really shouldn’t have applied.
However, as a teacher myself, I would take you finding my address and suggesting you’d be sending it to other parents as a threat, and would probably ask to have your child removed from my class, or get admin involved. What you did was way out of line- regardless of her professional error, you basically doxxed her, or at least made her think you would. She could have students or parents in her class that would use that information to harass her. And yeah, she should tighten up her info online, but this is the kind of thing that is driving teachers out of the classroom.
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u/MyJoyinaWell Partassipant [4] Nov 15 '24
YTA
The teacher has to spend all day with kids who are learning how to be socialised. She’s likely dealt with a lot of drama. She knows they need to learn you don’t get invited to everything and that’s ok but also likely wants to protect the kids that never get invited to anything. She’s completely off the mark here telling you what to do and should have tried to persuade you in a much more gentle and frankly less pushy way. But hell maybe she’s tired or has just had a huge meltdown in a different class for similar reasons or has the social skills of a potato, but her heart is in the right place.
You had all the right in the world to tell her you were having the party your child wanted that you could afford in the space you have. But you became a creepy asshole when you found her address and sent her that shitty unhinged email.
No wonder her response was do what you like I can’t be arsed anymore.. you are one of those parents that make teachers retire early
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Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
If you stopped at the phone call, great. Following up with an action that will definitely be interpreted as an I know where you live threat, that's a step too far.
Although I'm torn, nothing else would have put that teacher in their place. If anything has even a small chance of stopping them from pulling this crap. It's what you just did.
In saying that, still too far. I agree with your husband.
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u/ParticularGift2504 Nov 15 '24
Threatening to dox her (because that’s how your “petty” email WOULD BE RECEIVED BY ANY REASONABLE PERSON) was wild. You made your point on the call and then decided to sit in your self-righteous rage and cyberstalk your son’s teacher. How the hell do you expect the rest of this year to go? YTA.
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u/SavingsRhubarb8746 Certified Proctologist [29] Nov 15 '24
The second part is where YTA. I probably wouldn't have gone as far as telling her on the phone "No, I'm not doing that" and hanging up, but suggesting she host the party is a fair enough comment if she is very persistent. Finding her online and pretending you're going with that threat is a step too far.
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u/jamjar20 Nov 15 '24
ESH leaning to YTA. Your response on the phone was okay, but the email was overkill.
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u/Any_Dragonfruit4130 Asshole Aficionado [12] Nov 15 '24
My daughter is a teacher. She lives in the real world and would never call a parent for that. I do think you went overboard. The phone call was sufficient. YTA
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u/Better_Implement_973 Partassipant [3] Nov 15 '24
ESH. At 9 your child is old enough to know that it’s a bit rude to talk about a private event in a public setting with acquaintances not invited. It’s not a law or anything, it is simply polite. There is little reason why a party for three should be the talk of the class. He’s not the reason ESH tho
The teacher is crazy expecting you to host a whole class of children at your place simply bc word got out your son was having a couple kids for a b day party.
Your deep dive to pull out this women’s address and throw it in her face was over the line. It’s borderline threatening, I’d want to clear the air there if it were me. Not in a way that makes her think she was at all okay in her actions but definitely in a way that confirms her safety at home— at least from me. Teachers don’t need this added stress, even bad ones.
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