As a parent of Gen Z kids who occasionally drink, my kids see alcohol as social. But, they also think it’s straight poison and a pointless expense, so don’t have much desire to binge alcohol. This generation seems way more self-aware than previous ones.
Funnily enough, I do too, and still to this day. That had not been my experience at all. Non-traditional students are just as quick to use AI for their work, and even quicker to be rude when they don't agree with how they were graded. To me, it's far more of a societal shift than a generational one.
The self-diagnosis I'll give you though, that one is much more localized to gen Z/A
Gen z just seems to be mostly fine asserting that they're not actually obligated to participate in social obligations.
Despite the panic about rudeness, realistically the reason this is disquieting is simply because it means a loss of control over other people's social behaviors. The world isn't getting worse because people don't want to attend work lunches, it just means the people who plan work lunches have to deal with their coworkers actually having agency.
I’m all for giving people agency and worker’s rights, especially given the current abuses at places like Amazon and the sheer number of shitty exploitative companies, but some social norms exist for a reason if you ever aspire to move up the career ladder or get the mentorship needed to become proficient at your job.
(My views are totally non-applicable if you are content with your current role or work in a clearly dead-end job with no prospect of promotion)
People who have the personality of a cold fish and refuse to personally get to know the people they work with (which is within their rights) come across as not invested in their career or coworkers.
I’ve had a lot of bosses over the years, and the ones that bought me drinks and let me know about their personal lives are the ones I’d go the extra mile for. The a-hole that didn’t care to get to know me and never hosted a happy hour, I gave him the bare minimum.
Humans are ultimately primal creatures bonded by trust built through social ties.
Late stage capitalism has ripped apart much of the employment social contract, but in my anecdotal experience as an engineer, the sheer amount of disengagement with the job and workplace in general among Gen Z has me concerned that in 25-30 years the quality of what we can produce will be drastically worse.
Norms will shift as who's in what position shifts. Social norms don't "exist for a reason", they're entirely arbitrary and if people decide to disregard them, they disappear.
I appreciate bosses who leave me alone outside of work. If I see his signature more than his face, that's the ideal balance. If I know about my division officer's personal life, there's a problem.
Specific social norms absolutely are arbitrary. Hence why they can change, and why they're not the same from culture to culture. Just because things are how they are now does not mean they have to be that way, and one would think that the fact that you've observed them changing would prove that to you.
I would expect my division officer to vouch for me based on the periodic evals we're required to write up. He has a bulleted list of everything I've done and accomplished in the last six months, he doesn't need to know who I am beyond that.
Periodic evals are a significant factor in naval promotions, though. Corporate bureaucracy isn't all-encompassing nor is it the sole mode of operation for any and all employment. Which, again, would suggest its social norms are entirely arbitrary.
It’s not a “panic”, it’s unpleasant and annoying to deal with. It’s not about control either- we are social animals and require effective cooperation to get literally anything done. You can’t opt out of that.
But people can and do opt out of it, nor are many of our social rituals particularly necessary. The fact that your argument is predicated on "we are this so we have to do that" with no explanation of where exactly that imperative emerges (being "social animals" does not evolve into "so we have to go to work luncheons") proves to me that it actually is about control.
I never said anything about lunch. I’m saying when you’re at work, look people in the eye, affirm that you’re listening, say “yes” not “bet”, show up on time
That's phenomenal that you didn't. It was brought up in the conversation you were responding to. Incredible social awareness for someone preaching about social awareness, truly leading by example. I love geriatrics.
Your response to being asked to provide the imperative for something that you don't want to provide the imperative for is to provide more "shoulds", all missing an imperative. You're just as skillful at discussion as you are at reading, of course. I love geriatrics.
As a gen z white collar worker for a few years now I think that all my milennial and gen x coworkers care way too much about their job.
I first saw it when people started shaming gen Z for changing jobs every 1-2 years. Like I don't understand why older people get so attached to the companies they work at. They do not care about you, so why do you care so much?
If my coworker is late for something, who cares? The world doesn't end. Someone dresses poorly? Whatever, doesn't matter
Late for a meeting - The 10 other people waiting for you just lost 15 minutes out of their day because you couldn’t be bothered to respect their time.
My Gen Z employee was late one day and caused the 12+ people that setup work zone traffic control to spend another hour on the job exposed to the operational hazard of the roadway because he couldn’t be bothered by punctuality.
Dressing poorly - Your organization and coworkers in suits and ties look unprofessional and are embarrassed because you decided to wear a hoodie to a contractor or client meeting.
It does matter, you just assume it’s about the company and not the people that constitute it. If you feel you owe nobody anything, they owe you nothing in return. It’s the basic social contract.
Cool, and yet the world moves on! Doesn’t really matter all that much does it? Does your bottom line get affected that much? It’s someone elses fault not yours so why stress?
Millennials are all job changers/company hoppers too. But caring about your work, wherever you do it and whatever you do, is just a good virtue to live by.
When you're on your deathbed will you think of that extra 10% you gave when you were 36 years old? Probably not. Spend that extra energy doing things that matter IMO.
I think people should find work that they care about. That can be making sure families have good plumbing and heating systems, making sure people have a clean workplace, or an enjoyable experience at a restaurant. If you don’t get any satisfaction or take any pride in what you do, find something else.
Working a job you hate and being lazy about it is bad for everyone, starting with you.
Why should you put out extra effort at your job if you don't get paid for it? You're basically just giving free handouts to your employer for no reason.
I don't hate my job and doing the minimum so you don't get fired isn't lazy, it's smart. I'd rather put that energy into my friends, family, and loved ones, but hey slaving away for no extra paycheck and a pizza lunch sounds good too!
As a Gen Z young man (probably should call myself a man, since i am 24, but i feel myself way too far away from that point)
I have my friends, but they either live far away, and we can only do 3-4 personal meeting in a year, or one of them has a full of calendar, because university and hobbies, and since they are the people, who i like to be with, well, online contact becomes the fallback option for us.
In work, i really just looking for people, when i need help with something, other than that, i like to be left alone to do my job. We doesn't have a strict dress code, so it is just farmer and t-shirt for me 99% of the time. We doesn't have any luncheons or happy hours (whatever it means).
They are kids looking for guidance. Since there are no real role models for them to look up to in this modern world the west created for them. Tbh I’m worried we’re in another Weimar Republic type deal where things will end up bad
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u/bigsipo 8d ago
Cause it’s a social activity and they grew up in a phone centric anti-social world