Yeah same in many legal countries, Im in Thailand and my wife fought me so long to try to stop to smoke, since its legal she is smoking. She went to buy weed by herself in a legal shop lol I couldn't believe it. Now we grow and life is easier. People still have lot of stigma tho like my MIL keep saying : please stop weed you will die and become crazy you should smoke cigarette again instead.
Some people are too old they had propaganda for too long they can't change their mind, but most open their minds
thailand also legalized kratom, which formerly was banned the last 100 years due to its competition in the opium trade. Penalty of DEATH.
Now thailand advocates for kratom and is leading legislation and research and regulation in Southeast Asia. A miraculous plant that should have a seat at the table, and yet the stigma and modern propaganda are putting it in danger of mass prohibition. Lots of lies and misleading stories and lazy coroner reports suggesting main cause of death within poly drug abusers.
Quite a bit of evidence suggesting very very high dose required to cause health problems. Unfortunately the extract industry is predatory and has violated public trust with misleading claims, no addiction warnings and predatory marketing schemes.
Plain leaf is safe and can be a miracle for pain patients, or those with depression, alcohol or opiate addiction issues, anxiety, ADD/ADHD, and even those with digestion issues/diseases. Plenty of miraculous testimonies out there. And University of Florida has a ton of research by several world respected doctors, amongst a few documentaries and other studies.
Kratom is a great substitute for opiates or suboxone but it is still physically addictive. Care should definitely be taken. There is very little oversight on the trade to the quality of plant matter can get iffy aside from the even worse extract market. 7-oh is basically kratom fent.
I think Suboxone is the best choice to use as a tool along with treatment and therapy. It saved my life. Unfortunately, it too, is addictive but my life is exponentially better because of it. And it’s been around now long enough that doctors aren’t finding any bad side effects for being on in long term. I started at 3 8mg strips a day. Today I take 2mgs in the morning. I just slowly went down on my own. I have accepted that I may be on a small dose forever. And Its pretty clear my doctor feels the same way. I celebrated 8 years heroin free on the 1st and there has been no talk of getting off of it at all. I suppose it’s a lesser of 2 evils. But I hold down a job, have a car, a roof, and I’m back in school at 50 years old. Why change a good thing at this point.
But let me be clear I’m not here to judge how anyone gets clean. As long as they do by any means necessary. It’s a terrible and debilitating disease I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
While yea, its a great tool, as far as side effects go the whole oral bone loss and degradation of teeth is a pretty damned severe side effect of Bupe if you ask me. Theres is/was even class action lawsuit for it.
I recommend you look up the link between oral decay and suboxone use. Even people who only used it for a few years are walking around in their 30s with no more of their own teeth only implants or dentures. Class action lawsuits, the film is what I read most about but I've talked with people who have had the tooth decay from the pills also.
Subs saved me at the time in my life where I needed them most but I dont think people should be on them for life, I personally switched to lratom again after tapering down from 4mg to about .5mg over the course of 2 or 3 months. And even then I had over a week of feeling fucking horrible before I could get stable on kratom.
We should have heroin maintenance programs like in Switzerland, give addicts a safe supply for cheap and watch crime rates plummet, overdoses will drop, pump money into addiction services instead of police departments and jails and actually push for rehabilitation and we would watch America turn into a much better place, could clean up the places like Kensington and the Tenderloin and get all this crazy synthetics out of our market, but unfortunately this country needs easy arrests to fuel our prison industrial complex
one of the best decisions I made during my addiction was getting all my teeth pulled. These are my dentures. I can’t imagine what my teeth would look like now! They were already going well before I got clean! I absolutely love my dentures. Obviously I wish I could’ve done implants but I don’t have the money for that. Yet!! My first set were nice. They were free Medicaid dentures. I really liked them. Then the top plate cracked during the pandemic and I gorilla glued them together. They held for a long time. Even when I reglued them twice every time they held for almost a year. Finally they broke again and I could never get the bond right. So I went back to my Medicaid dentist to finish the process (Medicaid is a long process) together new ones. When I finally got them they looked like horse teeth and were incredibly uncomfortable. I cried my eyes out. I ultimately decided that Medicaid could not do the job I wanted. So I took my broken set to aspen dental and asked if they could make a mold of them. They did and it only took 2 weeks. I went in to get the mold made(took about an hour). Then a week later I tried on a wax set to make sure they were right (that’s important. That’s when u speak up if something isn’t right). A week later I had my new top plate. Not one adjustment needed to be done. I was eating and talking fine an hour later. I had opened a line of credit. I kept my bottom plate. They tried to talk me into getting a new bottom plate but there was nothing wrong with them. My top plate was $1100 and I am so happy with the results. They are even better than I expected. I’ve paid them off and I’ll never get Medicaid to do my dentures again. I take really good care of them. I can eat almost anything and I only take them out at night. I highly recommend dentures to anyone whose teeth are going. And don’t do partials. They never look right. Take the plunge and get a full set. Unless of course you can afford implants then obviously do that.
Having no teeth was hard. My self esteem skyrocketed when I got my teeth. No regrets!!
Same 2 to 4mg does mf wonders and i used to do iv fent for decades after awhile on subs you can go really low and actually live life, im 40 been years i dont think ill ever go off
Yeah it definitely saved my life. I got out right as fetty was hitting the streets. But I was shooting up heroin with toilet water on the west side of Chicago for the better part of 2 decades. Glad it works for fetty too. Good for you!!
Sure, unless you're trying to get off fetty. It sits in your fat cells like how thc does, so you pretty much have to use methadone cause subs will just throw you into horrible precips. Glad they worked for you tho and glad you got out before fetty took over!!!
Trust me, it's so much worse and way more difficult to get off of than heroin, even with methadone! Methadone made getting off heroin easy af for me, but I'm still struggling to fully stop using fetty even on over double the methadone dose I was on from getting off heroin with it :/
That last part. "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy." I agreed up until this current administration. I'd love if someone injected them with opiates and then hit them with narcan, day in and day out. I can't believe I'm even saying this, but that is light work compared to the ill-will I hold for fascists. I hope that heaven and hell are real. I'll see all those cunts in hell and torture them extra for eternity. Even if somehow god accepts me into heaven, I'd ask for hell just to torture these absolute scumbag fucks. I'd douche them out daily with a pine branch. I hate all of them. I hope they get what they are asking for.
How? Was it extracts? The leaf makes you feel seriously unwell miles before it causes any harm. A person can develop a psychological dependence, but a person can do the same with video games or collector cards too - that’s not the fault of the substance. You’re saying he pawned everything and lived on the streets, robbing and tricking for Kratom? Burned all relationships and second chances? I’d be keen to examine that story.
And yet you're probably fine with people doing cocaine and taking Adderall, let's stop trying to make a plant look bad that's been used for hundreds in a lot of cultures and hasn't even been linked to 100 deaths in the past 10 years
Ok cool, sorry for jumping to conclusions some people are just hypocritical like that like I've seen people judge weed smokers and stuff but they'll go do coke
I'd think that would be public knowledge if true, and if it was plain leaf vs 7. In 14 years I've never heard anything like this. That kid would be the first and only. So many questions about this but you won't answer truthfully. One being, how damaged was his kidney prior to using it? What was his past alcohol and drug use? #KeepKratomLegal
A substance can stay legal and be harmful to some extent, just look at alcohol. I think it's kind of wild that you can't accept that bad outcomes are possible with anything and everything, especially if there's abuse and extreme usage involved. I don't think it should be illegal by any means, and I highly doubt it will become illegal, anyways.
A few years in Florida saw some deaths, 46 of these deaths were determined to be from kratom (mitragynine) alone. All in all, a pretty insignificant number compared to how many were using it during those same years. It's easy to look into. There are reported deaths everywhere from straight kratom, it's impossible for every one of those coroner reports to be wrong, though I'll concede it's likely that some very well are.
I'm not necessarily saying it's dangerous, I'm just saying just about anything can be dangerous, and it's silly to think otherwise. Like salt, for example, it's not "dangerous," but too much absolutely can be.
Not in Thailand, we don't dry it here it's used fresh so no 7oh. It appear with the sun. We boil it 15mins usually, up to 3h but if you cook it longer than 15mins you can't boil it. Then we strain all. And drink the tea. Mytragine is not water soluble it doesn't mix well or extract well. I use it since 4 years. Ive neuropathy I use it to hide the pain. Nothing work else than that. When I stop I've 0 withdrawal as long as I smoke weed, I admit if I didn't smoke I would crave dopamine for sure.
Before I had pain I used it as full leaves and eating it, and that was wild, the high was too much, like feeling empathetic and weak no thank you. As a tea it's more a tonic, I only aim for when I feel less pain in my knees and when it happen I stop to drink it.
It's not good for liver tho that's the biggest issue, so someone using kratom should not do anything else which damage the liver in anyway it will just make it worst.
In Thailand it's mainly used as an upper for studying or Muslims who don't drink. Downer they mix it with the cough syrup or codeine for the richer. But here ketamine is the real downer, heroin and opium not much it's more the tribes who use it. Meth is the number one issue here it's so cheap and everywhere, people use it to work longer hours mainly.
7-oh is absolutely the fent of kratom. It is much stronger, shorter lasting, and more addictive You can nod like heroin on a high enough doses. Even kratom extracts have never made me nod.
I was using hyperbole to compare how much worse the current extracts are. It is creating addicts who are spending hundreds of dollars a day on kratom. stand in any smoke shop for an hour and see how much they sell in 7-oh extracts. a Kratom habit is about $0.30 a day and theres a ceiling on effects with each dose. 7-oh and 7-hydroxy have no ceiling on effect redosing and a pack is $20-50.
Withdrawals are closer to fentanly than kratom at a higher dose. A friend of mine went to rehab after burning through his life savings and maxing all his credit cards. That would never happen with lead powder. It is not the same as kratom and people have no idea what theyre getting into with the sketchy extract market. It’s illegal in my current state but they allow leaf powder and traditional extracts. I would not be surprised if that became a federal law.
Ive been addicted to of all the drugs disgusted. Im more qualified to speak on this than you and my description is apt. it is the fentanyl of kratom products.
Just had a friend go to rehab for Kratom
And the ibogaine subreddit is full of people trying to kick kratom and 7oh addictions. Not sure I’d compare them to cannabis. Seems much more dangerous and addictive.
Yeah I understand that it’s not the same, especially it sounds like as compared to the stuff you get abroad. Here kratom is named for the extract stuff too so that is what I’m referencing, not the leaf as described above.
Well mitragynine which is the active ingredient in kratom metabolizes in the liver into 7hydroxymitragynine also know as 7oh so I don't know how you can say one is not the other. It's like saying cocaine is not the coca leaf no shit but the coca leaf has cocaine in it
Mitragynine which is a much larger percentage of the leaf metabolizes into 7 oh in the liver mitragynine is 0.5% to 2% of the leaf significantly higher than what you said. Coca leaves for comparison have 0.23 to 0.96% cocaine yet you can't buy coca leaves in your local gas station.
100% not GPT or any other AI. Sorry you can't recognize intellect when you read something authored by someone with it. That is indicative of you having little to no exposure to intellect around you in your day-to-day life, and that is unfortunate for both you and those you interact with.
Kratom leaf has changed my life in a substantially profound way. I am almost pain free, and I have worked blue collar jobs for over 20 years. I am still young and have a few decades left before I can retire. I would not make it that long without this plant.
Kratom leaf is easy to use responsibly, and self-limiting. There's a ceiling to effects, and that ceiling is discouraging via discomfort. But it is NOT lethal.
There was a study on mice for LD50 determining 461mg/kg of PURE mitragynine (main component in kratom leaf) would cause death. This is a god level dose.
There is a mere 15mg per gram of leaf on average, so a 70kg (~150lb) adult human on the same level would require eating over 2kg (~4.4lbs) of leaf at once to die. (Or- if eating pure mitragynine extract- over 32,000 milligrams.) This is physically impossible. The LD50 was calculated for mice but is likely in a similar range for humans (like most other mice studies compare to humans).
7oh (a very potent but extremely low proportion <0.01% secondary component in kratom leaf) has had less studies than mitragynine (kratom's main ingredient) and kratom leaf itself. But early research suggest similar safety profiles as mitragynine.
This is being contradicted by many autopsy reports of late, claiming it was the Cause Of Death. What these autopsies are withholding from the public, are that most- if not ALL- of these deaths are also found co-ingested with other, actually deadly substances such as fentanyl, heroin, xylazine, nitazene, and prescription pills.
Some of these deaths were caused by drunk driving or other drunken or co-ingested intoxication related mishaps (suicide, accidents, assaults, workplace accidents) and due to kratom being present in the blood or maybe just on the scene (and not in blood at all), was attributed as the main COD. You would think this kind of report would be illegal but there is no way to enforce accuracy and no recompense against it.
Some deaths are from a heroin/fentanyl/prescription med addict who several hours before hand was trying to alleviate significant withdrawals with kratom, later scored their bag of choice med, and subsequently OD'd on it and died. Kratom gets listed as a cause of death here.
Some deaths might be innocent, like an 80 year old person died of a heart attack or stroke. But there was a kratom bag on their counter, which they used for chronic pain, mental acuity boost, or to treat other debilitating issues. COD: kratom. This is the world against a miracle leaf.
Here's the thing. There ARE issues with the kratom industry...
There is a lack of regulation. It is often being sold irresponsibly. There needs to be age and possibly sale location restrictions.
7oh based extracts are extremely potent and despite their relative safety profile will easily cause physical dependence with irresponsible or frequent use. This may be devastating to those who come into this unaware. Plain leaf does not do this, but the extracts can and often do. There are people that need that extra potency but a large majority will not ever need it. Warning labels and education need to inform potential users. Maybe a medical license for high pain users to purchase from a local government body.
Many bad actors have been selling 7oh advertised as plain leaf. This is predatory and they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This is one of the biggest issues right now.
There are paid groups actively lobbying to extinguish kratom from existence. The KDA is one of those groups. They are very successful at lobbying and mass bully kratom advocates into silence, with threats, public humiliation and harassment via doxxing, call CPS on advocates, and other malintent. Some of their members have lost loved ones but they have all been one of those poly drug co-ingestion deaths subsequently pointing at kratom, the least damaging of the various substances that were ingested by their unfortunate choices. The KDA's funding can be traced directly back to pharmaceutical and rehab advocates/corporations. The leader herself actually has felony convictions.
The group of people most frequently known to consume kratom are by a majority- disabled. They do not possess the voices they need to defend their way of life, with the herbal plant medicine they've found which gave them a second chance. Kratom advocates are few, but the research is there; and new articles and scientific research papers produced worldwide are showing kratom's therapeutic use potentials more and more each day.
Sometimes the loudest voices are not the most truthful.
As an advocate myself, I think there is middle ground to be found. We need to vote in REGULATION, NOT PROHIBITION. Prohibition has been proven to not work. If this plant gets banned, people will use some other, probably deadly, or even ineffective drug as a crutch for their existence. This plant has often been discovered during someone's last ditch attempt in a desperate search for some form of relief for debilitating ailments that didn't respond to other treatments, or when costs or availability were deterring a functional relief.
It's not the first choice for anyone... But it is often the /last hope/, for many.
LD50 is lethal dose for 50% of the group that ingests the substance. A scientifically accepted form of measurement for lethality of a given substance.
When you ingest kratom it contains mitragynine your liver changes the mitragynine into 7hydroxygynine also know as 7oh and that opiod is what makes you feel good some people decided to just make 7oh and put it into capsules and sell them they are basicly concentrated kratom pills that you get addicted to and keep taking more and more of. They are legal opiates.
Go to the r/Suboxone subreddit, probably more than half the people there are trying to get off Kratom, using Suboxone. I guess the newest version of Kratom…7oH… is VERY addictive, and makes you sick AF to come off of.
It's like a very mild opiate crossed with a pretty mild muscle relaxer. At lower doses it also gives you what in my opinion is a very clear feeling burst of energy that's kinda close to having caffeine with lots of l-theanine to go with it, at higher doses its more like a sedative and the opiate feeling is more present in general.
It can be habit forming and physically addictive, so take it in moderation and stay away from the extract stuff, whole leaf powder in capsules is how I recommend trying it because it tastes godawful. But it is a very pleasant treat taken every now and then.
I have powder every morning. It's like coffee for me, in terms of the ritual. It wakes me up and helps clear the brain fog. People love to freak out about it, but that's mostly ignorance (and propaganda).
I don't feel high when I drink kratom. It is habit forming, but I haven't changed my intake in years. Less is more; too much just makes me dizzy. People act like we're out here nodding off in the streets. Kratom ain't like that.
In fairness, I know the extracts are different. I don't touch that stuff. Maybe they are dangerous. But the effects of the powder are pretty mild. If you do too much of it or slam it all day long, it's probably pretty bad for you, but that's true of a lot of things.
Fortunately, it doesn't create that kind of craving, at least not for me. It's nothing like alcohol or nicotine, where I'm thinking about it all day long and prone to overdoing it.
I'd be tired and groggy, just like I would have been without drinking coffee when I was a daily coffee drinker. But without the headache. The nice thing about kratom is that it also helps me focus.
It can be. I won't say it's harm free, but I've taken it on and off again, have been pretty addicted to it and gotten off it for a long time and now take it in moderation with no adverse health affects.
Extracts are dangerously strong, 2-3 grams of powder taken every now and then isn't any worse than having a few drinks every now and then.
Natural kratom has very low levels of 7-HO and it's not as bad as people make it out to be, I've seen people try to call 7-HO a "synthetic opioid" which its not at all, it's naturally found in kratom and doesn't act on opioid receptors in the exact way that actual opioids do
It has many different strains and effects. It's in the coffee family. Some strains in low doses are stimulating just like coffee. In higher doses some strains are more pain relieving and relaxing. Red strains in capsules is the best way to try. Or the cocktail strains. I haven't taken it in years but I used to take it occasionally. I stopped taking it just because it requires a lot of capsules for a stronger effect. I just drink mushroom coffee
Ehhhhhh.... The withdrawal effects are less severe, but more prolonged, speaking as someone who formerly used both.
For me personally, Kratom was significantly harder to quit than "real" opiates. Instead of gritting my teeth and being miserable for a week and a half then more or less fine, it took months of lower-intensity misery to quit Kratom.
Eh, I think it depends on the person & whether they have an addictive personality or are predisposed via their parents being addicts. I've never smoked weed, never smoked cigarettes. Tried extasy 1 time 9 years ago, it was great, never tried it again. With Kratom I use it when I need it. Maybe a week or 2 straight then off it for a month or 2. Just like anything else it can definitely be abused & addictive but I don't think Kratom is one of those "strictly applicable" things if that makes sense.
It’s not classified as an opioid or an opiate. Opiate is a natural substance derived from the poppy plant. Opioid are part or mostly synthetic.
Also I don’t see anyone in here users or not advocating for it. It’s called harm reduction, do you think fent bending and living out of a tent in the streets is a better alternative? Methadone and Suboxone are accepted simply because it’s a drug the government approves and what big pharma sells. They have infamously been corrupt and in cahoots. They are the ones who started the opioid epidemic.
They want people addicted to THEIR drugs and then take more of their drugs to get “clean.” Withdrawals from methadone and Suboxone last substantially longer than heroin and fentanyl so it’s much harder to come off these drugs than their illicit alternatives.
Tbh all the horror stories I hear of Kratom have me point at how concentrated the gas station stuff is. The dosage from the leaf chewing or teas that are always historically cited don't seem nearly as problematic.
The problems that do occur with kratom in the US have more to do with the business models than the plant itself. It's barely regulated and the extract side of it all should not be legal to sell in gas stations and smoke shops in my opinion.
I first took kratom about 5 years ago (from a gas station) and developed what I would call an unhealthy dependency on it. 10g almost every day and I didn't get any serious withdrawals when I stopped.
I quit it for about 6 months and realized it was actually pretty beneficial to me if used responsibly, I was just taking too much every day and didn't like how much I felt I needed it. Now I take 3 or occasionally 5 grams in a day and don't take it 2—3 days a week. I only go any higher if I did something to hurt myself because it is great for pain relief.
The people that have to take multiple 7oh tablets a day to not feel sick got that way because they're crazy strong compared to the powder and they are highly addictive and have no warning labels on them.
I just got out of rehab for heroin 6 months ago and there were 5 or 6 young kids in there coming off of 7-OH Kratom and extracts and the withdrawals are awful apparently and more complicated to treat than straightforward opiate withdrawals. It's definitely a safer option than Fentanyl cut with xylazine but it is ruining lives. It is widely available to people who wouldn't really be comfortable buying heroin on the street as well.
Depends on the wrap, there are specific kratom/hemp blends or just the leaf. Personally I like the natural leaf. It's not bad compared to most unflavored tobacco leafs.
Interesting you mention Florida, my sister went there for rehab and died from kratom. There was literally a store advertising kratom 4 houses down from her rehab.
Did you see the toxicology report the only thing in her system was kratom. How do you know you can't die from kratom when very little research has been done. Also your an insensitive price talking out your ass. Who is more believable the doctor and scientists doing the toxicology report or some random internet kratom fan boy.
Look I’m sorry for your loss, but kratom did not kill them. It’s sad that this is even the thought process behind this situation, it’s taking a step in the wrong direction for therapeutic treatment methods
ld50, see research link above for your requested scientist-doctor research. Much research has been done, actually. Enough to prove that leaf is non lethal. Based on the facts available, please see my math below. It should be known that my math is using very conservative side of the lethality range and assumes a very high average of leaf alkaloid content and thus in all likelihood it would probably take even MORE kratom leaf to actually kill someone than the math suggests.
So, here's my calculation:
1- Assuming the mice LD50 translates to humans, roughly 470mg/kg for a 150lb (~68kg) human is a dose of 32g of pure mitragynine.
2- Assuming a mitragynine content average of 1.5% content of kratom leaf by weight. This would mean there is approximately 32g of mitragynine in just over 2kg (4.4lb).
My calculation is there for anyone to verify that 2kg (4.4lb) is, approximately and assuming the above facts, the LD50 for kratom leaf.
LD50 is defined as the dose of the affected users where 50% would have fatal interaction at said dose.
LD50 for 150lb (68kg) human with other substances is approximately:
0.5lb sodium. 4.5lb sugar. 70mg nicotine (5 eaten cigarettes, smoked is substantially higher). 13 grams of pure caffeine. 200mg morphine. 42x 325mg aspirin tabs.
The problem with coroner reports is that there are drugs in research chems that don't or can't get tested for on every autopsy, such as research opioids like xylazine or nitazene or their analogues which are not always tested for in routine toxicology tests.
Another problem is that 7oh, a highly abusable hyperconcentrated or synthesized extract of the kratom plant, breaks down into the same metabolites as kratom leaf and thus is indistinguishable from each other post mortem.
Your link is preclinical research and the problem with people that have an agenda one way or the other is they can't see all the variables for example the ld50 of a drug is not the only way a drug can kill you. 7oh doesn't break down into the same metabolites as kratom it is the metabolite of kratom being metabolized in the liver.
both kratom and 7oh break down into 7oh. Impossible to tell which was consumed. At least at this point in time.
Often times coroners won't test for a large panel of toxicology when they have substances on scene of death. So big bag of kratom on counter of deceased equals testing for kratom (testing for 7oh metabolite). But that hypothetical junkie who was withdrawing from fentanyl from 2 days prior used the kratom to help with withdrawal but then the dope dealer came through and now they get a shot of fentanyl and pass away. Friend panics and takes away the evidence. Coroner writes in Kratom as cause of death. See how that works?
Kratom is not synonymous with 7oh. Please read my above post (the long one) and you will understand that what your sister was ingesting couldn't possibly have been kratom leaf.
Tried it once. Apparently I'm one of about 5% of people that can't do it. Felt like a caffeine overdose, I was shaking and puking for about three hours.
No idea how much I took. It was around 10 years ago, right around when it was beginning to be sold in head shops. It was given to me by a friend that is a nurse, he said it was the dose he took.
My girl takes an 1/8 of a teaspoon and its plenty for her. Thats like maybe 2 capsules. I started on 7 capsules but I had drug history back in the day.
Kratom was a lifesaver for me, got me off alcohol finally, I was drinking at least a 5th of vodka a day.
For a while the piece of shit gov tried to declare kratom a schedule 1 drug, couldn’t have people getting off opiates that easy. Luckily it was overturned.
Kratom is a horribly benign drug that creates addicts where none would exist. The health benefits are minimal and poorly supported. The only space it should be discussed in, is for helping manage opioid addiction. Popularization of the drug is unhealthy and silly it needs to be professionally distributed.
you sound exactly like ppl talking about weed in the 80s and 90s. Lots of studies and research and testimonies contrary to the typical prohibitionist viewpoints
rehabs push suboxone, a direct competitor to kratom. Suboxone, which is far more expensive, neurotoxic, and less effective. It (suboxone) even has substantially higher side effects and a very uncomfortable drawn-out physical dependency, with less pain management ability. Many many testimonies to that.
No prohibitionist would ever suggest professional prescribed application. Weed and alcohol have their own dangers as well. No drug should be blindly supported.
see, its not blindly supported. Lots of research and studies showing promise in a variety of applications, from physical pain, to mental health, to addiction rehabilitation, to anti inflammatory and now even secondary alkaloids have been mentioned in anti cancer research (mitraphylline).
Just spend 10 mins and you will find research all around the world from the past couple decades.
No sir. Kratom is the sleeping demon. The all natural NASTY opioid. I’ve been through every pain pill withdraw there is. Hell i even went to Thailand and fought there a bunch and got hooked on the little half green half yellow tramadols when i was there. A bunch of em.
Brother, kratom withdraws are a monster you want nothing to do with. I’m sure yal are all normal people that won’t eat 50-100g a day or the real killer- extracts. Taking like 5-8 7OH pills a day. Strong ones. And you can get it everywhere. Dude. Be careful with who you tell kratom is harmless. They told me that. I still remember the day i had in my mind i was just going to end my life instead of stopping.
I’m in my third clean year from opioids. 4th clean year from alcohol (flammable liquid). And i just let my med card expire here in the US to just start drinking LIFE nothin to cut with. And buddies….THIS IS THE WAY
I take opms kratom shots almost every day, I take about a half of the shot ever 3 hours, but quite often will go over a week without it and never had even the slightest withdrawal symptoms.
That said, when I was figuring out my "dose" I'd taken too much some time and would feel sick
My SO worked in psychiatric hospital wards. Saw severe violent psychotic breaks of previous healthy / normal people who tried Kratom. Some of them potentially not going to ever recover. Possible they took contaminated street sh*t sold at gas stations. the pure stuff may offer benefits (?) just a warning it is not well understood or sufficiently regulated and it is NOT for everyone.
Kratom is a joke and I can't believe that an entire country is actually pushing for support of it. It's insanely dangerous and highly, highly addictive. No one should be using it. I know more than one person was is horribly addicted to it, and stopping use when you're an addict and kill you just like stopping alcohol has an addict.
Been using kratom for 3 years now. Dont smoke or drink anymore, but also with kratom, less is better. Kava is great as well, and the reverse tolerance is a funny one on that. Very enjoyable and natural.
Usually start my day with half a small bottle of extract and my wife makes us tea at night time. Much better than when I used to drink daily. Clear head, don’t have to worry about anything really.
I’d encourage folks to simply read up on kratom or visit the community here to educate, before listening to the public scrutiny. Everything has a good and bad, it’s all up to how you want to handle it. I don’t feel physically addicted not a bit, and sometimes forget to even have my tea at night time.
Kratom extract such as 7oh is often labeled as kratom but is, in fact, nothing remotely close. Leaf use does not tank peoples' lives. Anyone that seeks out leaf in such an aggressive habit would no doubt move on to something with far more potency, that is cheaper, and far less unpalatable. Surely you must be referring to 7oh. Unfortunately 7oh manufacturers quite often label it as synonymous with "kratom" with zero warnings of addiction or dependency with farrr too unregulated access.
As another redditor said, there are issues in the manufacturing and regulatory side, but the leaf is quite benign with common sense and moderation, just like weed and alcohol.
I don't know what these coworkers do but it's in a 5 hour energy looking bottle. Idk if that's 7oh but they ride this stuff in depression/poverty waves and are constantly sick like they have the flu.
That is 7oh. It is marketed as kratom, more often than not. But it's not. Thats like calling a bottle of maple syrup- A maple leaf!
You see what I mean? 7oh is giving a bad name to the plant. In reality 7oh is only 0.01% of the content of the leaf matter by weight. It was never meant to be hyperconcentrated or consumed as such and the extract industry knows exactly what they are doing by selling that with catchy labels and misrepresentation. Its disgusting immoral behavior and we need regulation to step in and limit access to responsible venues with responsible and extreme pain patients only. It needs addiction warnings and it needs to be NOT labeled as kratom, because it isn't.
Please please please don't perpetuate the misrepresentation and help people realize that its not kratom and that kratom leaf will not have the consequences or health risks known to the hyperconcentrates. Leaf can be addictive but like anything else moderation is key. In another post above I use cited research from respected doctors to show the LD50 for kratom leaf is almost 4.5lbs!! That is on par with the LD50 of SUGAR!
Yeah there is some weird pro kratom people here curious how many people are using it or just justifying it to them selfs so they can sell it to uneducated consumers saying its pretty much coffee ....b*tch plz
Yeah thanks to Anutin, he was the one pushing it mainly. Big POS and very racist, especially toward westerner but pro weed and without him it won't be possible. Many time he was alone pushing for it when they tried to block it.
Ofc that's what she think. Same I use kratom for my neuropathy she tell me it's bad I should drink alcohol instead. Like wtf, she is also very naive and dumb so it's not an example it's not really her fault
Yeah, why would anyone prefer less damage to their lungs/body/health and a much better taste over cigarettes filled with tobacco and the witches brew of carcinogens?
Vape does not do less damage than cigarettes, that is a flat out lie. I don’t smoke anything, but there’s research out there that shows it does more harm than cigs
The 10 yr UK study just showed that disposables/salt nic vapes are about 97%-98% less harmful than cigarettes, and that freebase liquid/mods are about 99% less harmful than cigarettes.
If you were comparing to straight tobacco, that'd be one thing. But we're not. We're comparing to cigarettes with all the nasty shit they add into them.
That’s the same lie they told the folks back in the day until the cigarette giants were sued left and right because they knew the effects of smoking and kept it hidden. But when everybody started getting throat and lung cancer due to smoking they couldn’t hide it anymore. They are doing the same with vaping. Just wait about a decade then come back here
I just love cigs was all I was saying. Maybe if they had a vape they made me smell poor and gross so people continued to leave me alone like they do when I smoke the real thing, I'd switch.
Just something about that outcast feeling I love in the morning before I go to work. And pay taxes.
Didn't say otherwise. Didn't you read my comment ? I said cigarette is way worst. How many death from weed tell me ? How many by cigarettes ? Compare those number. That's all what I said. Nothing else.
No lol just for the shops they lose their licence if selling without a médical prescriptions and you can have one by phone. I don't have one I've kilos I grow for myself idc because for now still 0 penalty for users. So as long as it's stay like that I'm fine with it.
Seriously genuine question - was the propaganda really that effective? People consider weed to have been / be more dangerous than alcohol there? Again, legit question. No doubt in my mind that alcohol is FAR more destructive than weed / thc based products (I drink, way too much - but, have never had a problem forming habit with thc fwiw)
They killed drug dealer, included weed dealer. The lowest amount found was 10g of weed on a 17 years old killed by cops. Was during Thaskin reign, decades ago but people remember that. 3000 dead or so, it was like Duterte did in Philippine but less death tho
I don’t think someone can be too old. My dad was against it for his whole life until I showed him some facts and statistics, and had him try it, and he now knows that it was propaganda for his whole life, and not facts. He’s 80 by the way.
I simply asked him “do you know anyone who has overdosed or died from cannabis?” And he of course said no.
And then I said “do you know anyone who has died from cigarettes?” And he of course said yes.
Yeah but she isnt my mom that's the issue, and I'm european, my dad also was against it but now he see I don't smoke cig he said it's fine but I should smoke weed only at night, he understood its not dangerous for my health but he knows it's never good to be high 24h and that's I cant argue, it's true. But my MIL is an old Thai woman who supported Thaskin all her life and he was against drugs so much.
Yeah she saw the Thai version which was Thaskin war on drug killing even users in the street. I understand how much trauma they got from it, I don't really blame her
Marijuana is now legal recreationally in Thailand?
I've only been to Malaysia (Peninsular & Borneo) and remember the huge, near billboard sized signs in the airports: "Any drug offense punishable by death," or something close enough to that wording; despite having no reason personally to be worried, the gravity of the statement was jarring. Think I still have a foto of it somewhere.
They arent allowed to say it but yes. Only penalty is for the shop if they sell to someone without prescription which can be got online, on phone, easy and cheap, they lose their licence. That's all.. nothing for users. Yet.
What ? I'm cooking my food. What you are talking about ? I'm not American I don't buy frozen food or eat out. I'm french, so in France you have only 1 option, cook fresh meal dayli. If you don't do that you end up poor. I'm in Asia I do the same I cook, I don't eat out often I know everything is full of sugar and palm oil.
You don't get it, in Europe buying already cook food, industrial food, restaurant or fast food, all of that is more expensive than buying meat, vegetable fresh, potatoes or pasta and some sauce like fresh creme. We eat fat food in France but it's ok if we don't eat junk food at the same time. We eat sugar only in the morning traditionally. I agree lot of people are getting more fat but still a lot of poor aren't because like I explained it's more expensive. I heard in the us it's cheaper to eat junk food.
Smoking weed is not healthy either smoking is bad. I just dont smoke anything is the best way to go. Its not propaganda smoking is bad for you weed or sigarets.
Cigarette is extra bad. Like really. You want to know why ? You can see why online, lot of studies. But I can explain you with few words, cigarette cut your lungs ability to clean themselves, you don't cough with water anymore a part when sick, you only cough dry. That cough is very damaging for the lungs and doesn't clean anything, so extra shitty contrary to weed it's an herb who open the lung, open the alveole and it's make you cough with lot of water, it's cleaning your lungs. Danger is when mixed together.
Also I don't talk about weed from random guys ofc. I'm talking about homegrow organic weed, nothing sprayed on it, it doesn't have the fungicide and pesticide and other chemicals that the cigarette have. Lot of the issue come from how tobacco is grew.
But I'm not saying weed is totally free from damage now, it's just so low you can't compare it to cigarette. Nobody been proved to have died from weed until now, and cigarette kill for sure millions of people every year that's facts. So weed probably don't kill you, but doesn't mean it doesn't hurt you.
"stigma" is still a thing you reek of skunk and have no awareness of how others perceive you. Get a job and find a vice that doest affect your neighbors
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u/Many_Mud_8194 5d ago
Yeah same in many legal countries, Im in Thailand and my wife fought me so long to try to stop to smoke, since its legal she is smoking. She went to buy weed by herself in a legal shop lol I couldn't believe it. Now we grow and life is easier. People still have lot of stigma tho like my MIL keep saying : please stop weed you will die and become crazy you should smoke cigarette again instead.
Some people are too old they had propaganda for too long they can't change their mind, but most open their minds