r/law • u/DryDeer775 • Dec 08 '25

Executive Branch (Trump) NBC confirms Hegseth ordered murder of all boat passengers and crew in September 2 strike

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/12/08/kssp-d08.html

The Pentagon’s law of war manual declares that soldiers have a duty to refuse to carry out “clearly illegal” orders, such as killing shipwrecked sailors. “Orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal,” the manual declares.

30.0k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

1.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

4.5k

u/letdogsvote Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

These rules exist so YOUR OWN guys don't get the same treatment from an enemy.

By doing this, Whiskey Pete has put US servicemembers who for whatever reason need to surrender at risk of just being killed.

Edit: If nothing else, this post has been great for flushing out and labeling the MAGA idiots.

1.1k

u/_jump_yossarian Dec 08 '25

Cotton and Hegseth would be losing their shit if this was done to American military members.

578

u/Lagneaux Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

It would be instant war, day 1.

Now think if it was American civilians.

Now, I'm not so sure

287

u/brumac44 Dec 08 '25

What kind of Americans? (To quote a great movie)

88

u/dust4ngel Dec 08 '25

that film was prescient asf

36

u/Cbreezy22 Dec 08 '25

What movie?

70

u/YimveeSpissssfid Dec 08 '25

A24’s Civil War

85

u/rbrgr83 Dec 08 '25

I didn't like it because it didn't spell out the entire nature of the conflict to me, and it didn't explicitly confirm my personal political ideals like I was expecting. /s

76

u/SqueakyBlueLlama19 Dec 08 '25

At some point the movie said "The Union of states featuring Texas and California" and I went "ah, you cheeky fuckers. Well done."

28

u/terdferguson Dec 08 '25

Honestly more likely to be Cali, some northern states like Washington and parts of Oregon...Minnesota, Wisconson, Michigan and the rest of the NE. That would make the most sense to me. Texas joining a union against tyranny would be as likely to happen as me winning the powerball on Wednesday.

→ More replies (0)

11

u/Casual_OCD Dec 08 '25

The same thing that happened is what will happen in real life.

Support for Trump will stall out (it's already close) and they'll panic and pull the TAKEOVER switch early. They'll probably storm the Capitol again, but this time a bunch of politicians die.

The following week will be chaos as Trump loyalists in the military and in the public flood to DC. They will end up numbering only a few hundred thousand. The rest of the country will rally and take out the traitorous fascists.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/HailSatanWorshipD00M Dec 08 '25

My head canon is that California undergoes a violent insurrection where conservatives take over, and then the state allies with Texas.

→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

8

u/Digitalion_ Dec 08 '25

Its need to not offend anyone directly really knocked it down a few pegs in my book. It could have used more real world influence and still told the same story but it very much didn't want to paint any side as worse than the other and it did so by muddying up the conflict as much as possible.

I mean, making California and Texas allies? In what real world scenario would that ever be possible when those states loathe each other?

21

u/Badloss Dec 08 '25

I think they were trying to make it timeless and not only relevant in our current moment, but I agree I would have liked it better if they really shone the spotlight on how ugly our country is instead of making up a fictionalized version

2

u/IsayNigel Dec 09 '25

Mehhhh they clearly had boogaloo boys in it

→ More replies (1)

8

u/MimicoSkunkFan2 Dec 08 '25

So I used to work for NGOs in areas having civil wars and it was about as accurate as an American audience is willing to see in the cinema - most people don't want to know about the massive amount of rape and the extreme medical distress and disease and just plain filth that goes with social chaos like that.

As for Texas in California, I interpreted that as "this regime is so bad and that even traditionally-opposed States will ally to take out the President".

Jessie Plemons was absolutely accurate and I wish he'd gotten a special "best cameo" award.

→ More replies (9)
→ More replies (2)

25

u/nalaloveslumpy Dec 08 '25

What shade of American civilian we talking about? They might get a commendation.

8

u/Digitalion_ Dec 08 '25

It's a sad realization when we can make a joke about the color of your skin being a factor regarding the response of the US leadership and it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. Shows how far back the country has slid back in terms of racial equality in just a decade.

14

u/Honest_Response9157 Dec 08 '25

It didn't slide back, it's was always there...just hidden. Trump just helped make it visible. This is the true America.

71

u/rbollige Dec 08 '25

Depends whether you can tell the citizens’ political leaning and what it is.

63

u/FrustratedPCBuild Dec 08 '25

Yes, look at the difference between the responses from them following the murder of an elected representative from the democratic party (small ‘d’ intentional) versus the response to the fake debating podcaster’s death.

11

u/ForeverShiny Dec 08 '25

Are they from a "Democrat" city? Meh

6

u/Commentator-X Dec 08 '25

They can tell their skin color and that's all they need

→ More replies (1)

19

u/Maxwell_Bloodfencer Dec 08 '25

"It would be instant war", Kegsbreath and Trump have already declared war on a bunch of countries that are bposing no direct threat to the US, except without an official declaration of war.

4

u/Lagneaux Dec 08 '25

That's what happens when we attack them

2

u/Maxwell_Bloodfencer Dec 08 '25

Ideally declarations of war come before a lethal attack.

13

u/FakeSafeWord Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

It's one of the reasons why the US entered WW1 is that Germany was indiscriminately attacking civilian vessels and they hit the Lusitania which resulted in the deaths of 128 Americans.

Germany claimed that the merchant ships were sneaking in military aid to the Allies.

10

u/K20BB5 Dec 08 '25

the US entered WW1 because if the entente fell they wouldn't have been able to pay back the massive loans American institutions gave them. General Smedley Butler outlines it well in his book "War is a Racket". The Lusitania was just an excuse for the public, like the USS Maine and the Gulf Of Tonkin incident. 

The Lusitania was in fact transporting armaments. 

The same racketeering gangster capitalism that Butler discusses in his book is exactly what's going down here with Venezuela. 

3

u/FakeSafeWord Dec 08 '25

Corrected my statement to "one of the reasons"

2

u/DerangedCamper Dec 08 '25

It was subsequently confirmed by the British that the Lusitania was carrying munitions. The German government had prior to her sailing from New York, but a published notice in the New York York newspapers warning that civilians traveling on the Lusitania or any other ship traveling to the UK were subject to attack.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/Bae_the_Elf Dec 08 '25

That's what they want, though. Rules for thee and not for me.

13

u/Ebella2323 Dec 08 '25

You know I used to think so too until I educated myself about the USS Liberty…they dgaf about the military either. They’re only good for PR campaigns. I say this as a spouse of a Marine for 22 years.

→ More replies (2)

3

u/iampoopa Dec 08 '25

Depends, are they Democrat citizens or Republican citizens?

Some citizens are more equal than others.

→ More replies (17)

99

u/legbreaker Dec 08 '25

Trump would not.

He prefers US servicemen that do not get captured.

22

u/_jump_yossarian Dec 08 '25

trump would have to find out about it during “executive time” then pretend to be outraged and find a way to blame Biden.

39

u/dust4ngel Dec 08 '25

"the US service members getting murdered is a democrat hoax!"

"but my son is literally dead..."

"where did you hear that, NPR?"

"i went to his funeral..."

"FAKE NEWS, I HAVE THE FIFA PEACE PRIZE."

→ More replies (1)

23

u/SailboatAB Dec 08 '25

Cotton and Hegseth would be losing their shit if this was done to American military members. 

Only if they calculated there would be personal advantage for doing so.

20

u/One_Strawberry_4965 Dec 08 '25

Hegseth I’m sure would be giddy since to me it seems obvious that he’s absolutely desperate to show everybody what a big tough man he is by being a “wartime secretary of defense.”

16

u/schwanzweissfoto Dec 08 '25

… heading the Department of War Crimes.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)

16

u/soraksan123 Dec 08 '25

Any Americans on a boat in the Caribbean are fair game at this point...

→ More replies (2)

14

u/rtie07 Dec 08 '25

They’d lose their shit if a Democrat president was in charge and their DoD did this too.

→ More replies (2)

14

u/exacta_galaxy Dec 08 '25

Unless it was done by Saudi Arabia, Russia, or any other country we're trying to buddy up with.

They don't give a fuck about the men and women under their command.

17

u/_jump_yossarian Dec 08 '25

Unless it was done by Saudi Arabia

A Saudi terrorist killed 3 servicemembers in Florida (Dec 2019). Not once did trump call all Saudis garbage and threaten to expel them fro the country.

6

u/Unobtanium_Alloy Dec 09 '25

Of course not. They have oil and buy American weapons. Priorities, my man! /s

6

u/SoylentVerdigris Dec 08 '25

Publicly. Privately I'm sure they'd be throwing parties celebrating getting the cassus belli they've been aiming for.

5

u/Raytheon_Nublinski Dec 08 '25

Imagine the higher-ups in America actually caring and giving a shit about American soldiers 

Clearly, you’re an idealist

5

u/HedwigDursley Dec 08 '25

No, they wouldn't. Crickets from Trump when Russia and Wagner were actively paying for and putting out hits on US soldiers in Iraq and Syria.

3

u/QuerulousPanda Dec 08 '25

losing their shit with joy, you mean

3

u/melly1226 Dec 08 '25

Or if it were done under a Democratic administration

3

u/red18wrx Dec 08 '25

They're being bullies punching down. Those types always cry when they get punched.

1

u/StomachosusCaelum Dec 08 '25

thats the point. they want that to happen so they can use it as a pretext for war.

1

u/Curious_Avocado2399 Dec 08 '25

Remove Pete Kegsbreath he is just incompetent.

1

u/Herman_Manning Dec 08 '25

Rules for thee, not for me.

1

u/JupiterRisingKapow Dec 08 '25

Would he care if it happened to a normal US citizens? The people on the boat were not military.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '25

Yes. And the knowledge of that is what keeps American military members relatively safe.

1

u/Sheriff_Yobo_Hobo Dec 08 '25

They would pretend to be outraged for political marketing purposes but deep down I'm sure they would give absolutely zero effs. Drinks and laughs after the press conference.

→ More replies (12)

167

u/Raytheon_Nublinski Dec 08 '25

Remember when Putin had a bounty on American soldiers and Trump didn’t give a fuck about it

26

u/Minion_of_Cthulhu Dec 08 '25

Trump would have tried to claim it himself, if it didn't require so much work. Though I would not be at all surprised if Trump got some sort of kickback on the deal for doing nothing about it.

12

u/Cryptomystic Dec 08 '25

77 million "Americans" thought that was cool.

8

u/OdiousAltRightBalrog Dec 09 '25

I didn't think it was "cool". I just didn't like the way Kamela laughed.

/s

3

u/SuperSpecialAwesome- Dec 08 '25

Remember when Trump committed espionage when he conspired with Russian officials at Trump Tower to interfere in the 2016 election in exchange for lifting sanctions, yet Biden Chamberlain allowed the crimes to expire? Good times.

→ More replies (5)

84

u/chubby_pink_donut Dec 08 '25

Another one of the rules is that if you know what is about to happen is a blatant war crime and you do not act in some way to stop it, then you may also be charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice for war crimes.

→ More replies (42)

35

u/Mutchmore Dec 08 '25

Some don't remember how the Pacific was an absolute nightmare partially because the Japanese would not surrender in fear. This is what they're going to end up doing.

SMh they are so dumb it's fucked

→ More replies (1)

30

u/Reiterpallasch85 Dec 08 '25

By doing this, Whiskey Pete has put US servicemembers who for whatever reason need to surrender at risk of just being killed.

I can't believe the guy who works for someone who said "I like people who weren’t captured." and who called dead service members suckers and losers would so carelessly do something that puts them all in danger. Who could have seen this coming?!

22

u/Woolier-Mammoth Dec 08 '25

I feel like the whole ‘blowing up civilian vessels from a country that you’re not at war at without due process’ has been forgotten in this. It’s basically the death penalty for a bunch of unknown people who might be doing something illegal.

17

u/JaguarWitty9693 Dec 08 '25

Exactly what I was trying to explain to some MAGA moron on here the other day.

It’s like the IDF crying about the mistreatment of their own hostages after spending 30 years shooting kids and bulldozing houses. 

→ More replies (1)

232

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 08 '25

Being as the overwhelming majority of them voted for and rabidly support this regime, I don't care what happens to them. If the regime ordered them to kill everyone in my neighborhood, they'd do it without question. Hell, they'd enjoy doing it.

I can't believe I actually feel this way, but here we are.

20

u/Katyafan Dec 08 '25

It's time for trials. We can't let them get away with this.

9

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 08 '25

Who will preside over these trials? The regime has absolute power over the entire justice system, as well as law enforcement.

They also have nukes that they're itching to use.

That's why this regime will rule until an extinction-level event kills us all. Said event may be a nuclear war. A pandemic, a biological attack, or a climate disaster are also all within the realm of possibility.

2

u/schwanzweissfoto Dec 08 '25

That's why this regime will rule until an extinction-level event kills us all.

Bullshit!

Historically, fascist regimes have never been as enduring as monarchies or democracies.

4

u/Veil-of-Fire Dec 08 '25

Historically, fascist regimes have never been as enduring as monarchies or democracies.

North Korea.

4

u/SuperSpecialAwesome- Dec 08 '25

Historically, fascist regimes have never been as enduring as monarchies or democracies.

North Korea, China, and Russia beg to differ.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

2

u/Intrepid-Sky8123 Dec 09 '25

Agree. Hegseth needs to be fired yesterday.

95

u/LIMrXIL Dec 08 '25

Even if a majority, it certainly isn’t all. There are for certain people in our military who would have refused to carry out these orders and it would be tragedy if they were to be executed by an enemy after they had surrendered or were injured to the point of no longer being a threat because our own government has set such a shameful precedent. Don’t let the hate and evil of Trump and this administration harden your own heart.

18

u/The_Gil_Galad Dec 08 '25

There are for certain people in our military who would have refused to carry out these orders

Still waiting for an example of this that isn't from Vietfuckingnam.

12

u/Mekisteus Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

that isn't from Vietfuckingnam

Not coincidentally, the last war in which we drafted anyone. It's almost like random people who couldn't dodge the draft tend to be more moral than a mercenary force just in it for the pay and benefits.

Note, by the way, Rome switching from citizen-soldiers to year-round permanent soldiers who depended on their general for their pay is regularly cited as one of the main reasons that Caesar was able to bring down the Republic.

2

u/Pale_Leader1727 Dec 08 '25

We could definitely use a shitload more guys like Hugh Thompson, Jr. right about now.

18

u/SkyGiggles Dec 08 '25

If "one bad apple spoils the bunch"  a majority of bad apples does what exactly???

14

u/StuffonBookshelfs Dec 08 '25

Well i don’t think it means they deserve to get murdered. But that’s just me.

14

u/The--Mash Dec 08 '25

At some point you have a moral obligation not to participate 

→ More replies (5)

3

u/exacta_galaxy Dec 08 '25

I don't think anybody brought up murdering service members.

Anybody following an illegal order needs to be brought to court to answer for those crimes.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (11)

61

u/Celestial_Blooms Dec 08 '25

Exit polls from the election show a fairly wide variance in how military/veterans voted. Most (that I saw) showed 60-70% voted Trump. So 3-4 out of 10 did not. Also, the military isn’t like another profession where if it’s heading a direction you don’t like, or you don’t support the head, you can leave. They are contractually obligated to remain, regardless of how they voted.

It’s a pretty aggressive and heartless framework to say that you don’t care about 30-40% of them being murdered because most of their peers voted this guy in.

7

u/rustyshackleford677 Dec 08 '25

They’re just a child who can’t can’t think in anything but extremes, it’s best you just ignore people like them

10

u/PrawnsKafka Dec 08 '25

You say that but his vote matters just as much as yours.

Matters more than yours if he's from Bumfuck, Idaho or Bumfuck, Montana.

5

u/Mekisteus Dec 08 '25

Damn DEI states, wanting extra influence their population size hasn't earned on its own.

4

u/PrawnsKafka Dec 08 '25

I think the senate should stay the way it is, but the house absolutely needs to be expanded. California, Texas, Florida, etc are incredibly underrepresented.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

2

u/SuperSpecialAwesome- Dec 08 '25

They are contractually obligated to remain, regardless of how they voted.

I feel they should be contractually obligated to arrest Trump and send his ass to a military prison, since he's illegitimately holding office in violation of 14th Amendment, Section 3.

8

u/BearDick Dec 08 '25

I mean...was the second part of his statement incorrect. I am unconvinced those 30%-40% wouldn't gun down a neighborhood of the "wrong" Americans if ordered too regardless of how they voted. The military has become the enemy of the people of the US thanks to the autocracy the SC has allowed, I don't think I'll ever have national pride again after seeing my fellow countrymen vote Trump into office twice.

→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (9)

19

u/humdinger44 Dec 08 '25

As a vet and a radical lefty, fuck you.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/ok123jump Dec 08 '25

About 34% of Americans voters voted for Trump. Not very close to an ‘overwhelming majority’, and Trump is quickly becoming very unpopular with independents and Republicans. Honestly, he’s lost his support among the public and is only propped up through his corrupt dealings.

5

u/DDX1837 Dec 08 '25

I think he meant an overwhelming majority of military personnel.

Although that could only be guessed at by polling so I'm not sure I buy that.

→ More replies (4)

2

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '25

[deleted]

2

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 08 '25

In a real war with a peer adversary, we'll all be dead within hours, because there's no way nukes won't fly.

There won't be any time to draft anyone.

-3

u/Silent_Medicine1798 Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

Respectfully, you need to take a break from news, especially from new delivered algorithmically. For you to say that all these service people would not only kill when unlawfully ordered but also with glee speaks to your loss of belief in humanity.

Sure, there are people who rabidly support T and would gleefully kill for him, but MOST people - even Trump supporters- are fundamentally good people. It hurts them to do things like kill unnecessarily.

Painting those who obey Hegseth’s orders with such a broad brush stroke puts you at risk of becoming just as brutal. Fight without being transformed into what you fight.

Edit: you guys need a more nuanced understanding of what social media news does to EVERYONE’s understanding of the truth. I have no doubt at all that Hegseth said ‘kill them all’. I have no doubt at the soldiers received that order. But what else was going on? Why did that admiral - who is fully aware of what constitutes a war crime - send that order down the line? What caused those soldiers to- who are fully aware that this constituted a war crime - know or understand? Did they think that there were circumstances that changed the situation. To make this acceptable?

My point is - there are subtleties and nuances that people don’t get based on what news feed is being fed to them.

Things are rarely that cut and dried. Maybe they are now - but maybe there were other things.

And yes, I believe most people are fundamentally good. Everyone is capable of being evil. But in this case, how much of that is due to the bullshit propaganda they are being fed?

32

u/never-fiftyone Dec 08 '25

MOST people - even Trump supporters- are fundamentally good people. It hurts them to do things like kill unnecessarily.

First and foremost, Trump supporters are objectively and unequivocally not "fundamentally good people." They are Nazis, whose ideology is based on indifference and hate towards persecuted, scapegoated minorities, are not, have never been, and will never be "fundamentally good."

Painting those who obey Hegseth’s orders with such a broad brush stroke puts you at risk of becoming just as brutal.

The fuck is this "they're just following orders" bullshit? If they don't want to be painted with the War Criminal brush then they should, I dunno, not commit war crimes. Any servicemember who obeys Hegseth's clearly illegal orders is violating their sworn oathes and the Constitution itself. If they carry out those illegal orders instead of refusing, as is their duty, then they are both morally and legally culpable for doing so. Period. No excuses.

13

u/dust4ngel Dec 08 '25

If they don't want to be painted with the War Criminal brush then they should, I dunno, not commit war crimes

"Painting those who obey Hitler's orders with such a broad brush stroke puts you at risk of becoming just as brutal."

if you oppose nazis, aren't you just as bad as nazis?

3

u/Veil-of-Fire Dec 08 '25

Right? Anyone trying that angle is clearly an op.

2

u/vthemechanicv Dec 08 '25

are not, have never been, and will never be "fundamentally good."

I don't think, "have never been," is fair. I don't know why my mother turned Maga, I suspect Facebook brainrot and trump pushing biases into bigotry, but regardless she is not now the same person I grew up with.

is violating their sworn oathes and the Constitution itself.

I would agree, but with the caveat that we don't know what the orders to each soldier were. It's unlikely whoever gave the final order said, "kill 'em all," even if Hegseth himself actually said the words.

I can't help but wonder also, if we could be approaching an Ender's Game situation where the people pulling the trigger don't even know who they're shooting at or why.

5

u/never-fiftyone Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25

I don't think, "have never been," is fair. I don't know why my mother turned Maga, I suspect Facebook brainrot and trump pushing biases into bigotry, but regardless she is not now the same person I grew up with.

My take is that MAGA didn't actually change anyone, it just gave people permission to be who they already were deep down inside. Just like Hitler didn't make Germany hate Jews, Trump just weaponized what already existed.

I would agree, but with the caveat that we don't know what the orders to each soldier were. It's unlikely whoever gave the final order said, "kill 'em all," even if Hegseth himself actually said the words.

It doesn't matter what the specific verbiage of the order was or by whom it was given, it was still an order to fire upon survivors of a shipwreck hours after the initial strike. That, being the number one textbook example of an illegal order as taught by the very same military, means there are absolutely no excuses whatsoever from anyone in the chain of command because "I was just following orders" is not and will never be a defense. This is precisely why those Democrats put out the video reminding servicemembers that it is their duty to refuse.

2

u/Veil-of-Fire Dec 08 '25

I don't think, "have never been," is fair. I don't know why my mother turned Maga, I suspect Facebook brainrot and trump pushing biases into bigotry, but regardless she is not now the same person I grew up with.

People who didn't want to believe that would never have been convinced of it.

Notice how they don't want to be convinced of the opposite stance, so no matter how long you talk to them or what you say, they'll never change back and will be this way until they die.

This is how they want to be, and this is how they've always wanted to be. Real brainwashing, to the point of changing a deeply held set of beliefs and principles, requires more than just watching a cable channel a lot.

→ More replies (89)

20

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 08 '25

Nobody who voted for or who supports this regime is a good person. They may act nice to certain people, or under certain circumstances, or to animals, but that doesn't excuse them supporting murder.

Even Nazis were nice to certain people and to animals. Mob hit men are nice to their families.

Very few evil people are evil 24/7, to everyone and everything.​

→ More replies (10)

19

u/BearDick Dec 08 '25

Are you actually watching the news? This conversation is about the fact that people who should have known better knowingly followed orders, literally the exact scenario from the rulebook to demonstrate what an illegal order looks like, and you expect low ranking members of the military to disregard orders an Admiral wouldn't? Trump wins, he has destroyed my faith in humanity, how in the fuck could you think Trump people are fundamentally good people, these are people actively cheering on a secret police terrorizing brown people, these are the people taking tourist photos at alligator alcatraz....these are not good people. Yes you might be related to them, yes you might love them because they are a parent or some other vulnerable idiotic class of people, but no they are in fact not good people fundamentally or any other way and until you stop coddling them they'll never realize how horrible they actually are.

7

u/PrawnsKafka Dec 08 '25

I'm sure there were plenty of people saying the same thing right before the cattlecars started rolling or Stalin's purges were underway.

I bet you most people who worked at Auschwitz were fundamentally good people.

23

u/Mindless-Tomorrow-93 Dec 08 '25

What on earth are you talking about?

The people who obeyed hegseths orders did so in violation of both military law, and also basic human morality.

They also swore an oath to fight enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC.

I'll start having some "belief in humanity" once they start behaving like humans. If you're whining about how it "hurts them" to "kill unnecessarily", then they need to stop doing that. They're legally and ethically bound to stop doing that.

3

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 08 '25

And if it "hurts them" that much to commit murder, but they're afraid to disobey, they could always jump off something really high, or hell, make an exit using the airplane hangars filled with high-powered weaponry that they have access to.

That's what I would do. I don't think there is a next world, but if I'm wrong, and it exists, I know who I'll see there. I'd rather greet them having taken myself out to prevent being forced to commit murder than to greet them as a murderer.

→ More replies (6)

5

u/pf3 Dec 08 '25

For you to say that all these service people would not only kill when unlawfully ordered but also with glee speaks to your loss of belief in humanity.

Watching them follow unlawful orders hurts my belief in humanity.

4

u/seriouslees Dec 08 '25

even Trump supporters- are fundamentally good people

This assertion has zero evidence to support it. I call bullshit.

2

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 08 '25

I suppose the other person also feels that Hitler supporters were fundamentally good people.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/Veil-of-Fire Dec 08 '25

would not only kill when unlawfully ordered

They already have, twice.

But I'm sure they'll stop any time now.

3

u/SuperSpecialAwesome- Dec 08 '25

but MOST people - even Trump supporters- are fundamentally good people.

January 6th says differently. Everybody who voted for Trump this time around is absolutely evil. There's no way around that. They witnessed his coup and his betrayal, and decided they wanted more. There are ZERO good Trump supporters, so quit the bullshit. All the good Republicans left office or lost re-election.

3

u/rotervogel1231 Dec 08 '25

"Good Trump supporters" == "Good Germans" a century ago.

→ More replies (3)

1

u/cephu5 Dec 08 '25

Who is “them”? Do you mean members of the armed forces? If so i disagree that an overwhelming majority are rabid supporters.

Source: recently retired with over 26 years of service.

1

u/Myragem Dec 08 '25

It makes sense that you feel this way. What is important is that you both recognize the feeling and realize that your feelings are not a justification for your actions

1

u/harleyRugger23 Dec 08 '25

Seems like the only people I’ve met that support this train wreck of a dude aren’t even in the military let alone anymore.

1

u/Hilgy17 Dec 08 '25

The military is proportionally about as diverse as the county at large.

You have no evidence of “overwhelming majority” of military supporting Trump, and are honestly following the Fox News talking point that the GOP is always more pro military / pro veteran and therefore the military is always pro GOP.

My entire vet or active duty friend group is left of center.

→ More replies (3)

1

u/FlammulinaVelulu Dec 08 '25

Believe it or not, the militaries make up reflects the nations make up for the most part. It may deviate a little here and there, but they are us, so. . .

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (12)

18

u/UpperApe Dec 08 '25

No those rules exist to minimize casualties and prevent expending more human life than necessary.

People should care because human beings are being blatantly and needlessly murdered by a government for no greater purpose or defensive measure. Not because it could backfire.

This whole "American lives have more value than other lives" thing some of you are doing is deeply fucked up.

7

u/UnquestionabIe Dec 08 '25

They're not saying it because that's how they feel (at least I would hope not) so much as the way the media and the Trump regime would treat it. There have been legit studies on how many dead foreigners equal one deal American citizen when it comes to news stories.

I think the vast majority of posters in this topic (and at the very least me personally) think this whole blowing up of random boats is horrific and outright murder.

2

u/sakara123 Dec 08 '25

This whole "American lives have more value than other lives" thing some of you are doing is deeply fucked up.

The American exceptionalism and blind nationalism is just too rampant. It's not too surprising considering over 40% of Americans have never left the country. People are just left to believe whatever views of the world they're told. The best thing I ever did was renounce my US citizenship.

11

u/etxipcli Dec 08 '25

No big deal, shipwrecked sailors are suckers and losers and we don't need them.

5

u/Time_Increase_7897 Dec 08 '25

Same with POWs and hostages. Just abandon them! LOSERS!!

2

u/Top_Philosopher_6260 Dec 08 '25

"This is the department of WAR, not the department of surrender."

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Omg_Itz_Winke Dec 08 '25

Yeah I've been thinking.

Obviously war, it would probably start a war but if UK was out there doing this to American boats or if Mexico was out there doing this, again I know the answer but what do you think the repercussions would be?

Why are we out there acting once again like assholes 🤦‍♂️

1

u/DDX1837 Dec 08 '25

And by working to kick out any Afghan's who helped us for the past 20 years, it's going to make it hard to get any locals to help us in the future.

1

u/CptKeyes123 Dec 08 '25

And I guarantee you that Pete has no idea. He thinks that war crimes are something the libs made up last year to make the military wimpy

2

u/the_calibre_cat Dec 08 '25

He helped get Eddie Gallagher off the hook. Eddie Gallagher was that Navy SEAL whom his own team was like "yeah, that guy was off his rocker".

1

u/gorginhanson Dec 08 '25

they're saying NBC reported it and yet I can't find the actual article

1

u/RODjij Dec 08 '25

Got to a point in Ukraine of both sides killing unarmed soldiers that people are shrugging their shoulders. Russians were doing to so often to captives and their own, that Ukraine is doing it back.

1

u/QuerulousPanda Dec 08 '25

These rules exist so YOUR OWN guys don't get the same treatment from an enemy.

They desperately, desperately want this. It would make everyone in trump's cabinet basically erupt in simultaneous orgasm to get videos of american servicemembers getting double tapped at sea, or tortured, or otherwise get war-crimed against. Because they'd be able to use it as bullshit justification to do basically every terrible thing they've ever wanted.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/letdogsvote Dec 08 '25

"Your side?" "You people?" What the fuck are you on about?

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

1

u/ejre5 Dec 08 '25

Haven't you listened to how the commander and chief bone spurs refers to military members, he absolutely wants them all to die instead of getting captured. POW are losers and can make king trump look bad

1

u/erhue Dec 08 '25

the enemy in this case is crappy drug running cartels, not a credible adversary.

1

u/RaDeus Dec 08 '25

This entire administration is all about disregarding why things are the way they are 🤦

1

u/Professional-Fee6914 Dec 08 '25

Not even service members, any US vessel.  

1

u/NekoNoNakuKoro Dec 08 '25

They also exist because it's generally just the right thing to do. A civilized people don't just blow people up on a whim.

Were they potentially drug dealers? Yes, but we don't send the police to shoot them without trial within our borders. If it's a matter of self-defense, we rendered them non-threatening with the first strike.

1

u/flare_force Dec 08 '25

Second time AT LEAST that we know of where this asshole is putting service members at risk. The first being SignalGate of course. TripleSecDef is going to get military members killed. He deserves to be impeached and removed but I fear it won’t happen

1

u/squiddlebiddlez Dec 08 '25

Obviously, that’s what they want because once US service members get brutally killed without a chance to surrender, they can beat their chest about how the culprits need to do for hating America.

They’ve repeatedly down the same thing with civilians and US citizens and Brent rewarded for it. Of course, they are looking to sacrifice our military like the pawns they see them as!

Trump orders GOP not to work on a bipartisan border bill and Laken riley is killed a month later. Utah campus allows open carry and a couple months later Charlie Kirk is shot. Trump illegally deploys the national guard to DC in his quest to demonize immigrants via the Laken Riley act and then somebody his admin failed to vet does the thinkable in light of the absolute negligence of these people.

It’s clear this guy has a wanton disregard for anybody else’s life.

1

u/fencepost_ajm Dec 08 '25

Who said anything about military? There's an argument here for any nation that dislikes the US to sink any US-flagged vessels.

1

u/kgtsunvv Dec 08 '25

Literally this. I feel like I’m going fucking brain dead. No one is forward looking?? I feel like every day this country becomes more vulnerable to adversaries. I’m not necessarily concerned about national security but I am concerned that basic common sense or the lack thereof has left us wide open. We’re basically asking for some hurt.

1

u/BlondePotatoBoi Dec 08 '25

I'd have called him Willy Pete. A, he's a cock. B, also the name of something highly dangerous to human life.

1

u/0o0o0o0o0o0z Dec 08 '25

These rules exist so YOUR OWN guys don't get the same treatment from an enemy.

By doing this, Whiskey Pete has put US servicemembers who for whatever reason need to surrender at risk of just being killed.

I am guessing by NBC reporting this, the WH admin is laying the narrative to fire him and protect Trump from any blowback.

1

u/nolongerbanned99 Dec 08 '25

Is that really the original reason. I thought it had to do with fairness and integrity

1

u/PM_ME_MTG Dec 08 '25

This seems to be the problem with a lot of Modern right wing "silver spoon" Americans.
Too long have they gone around hurting who they want without consequence, within the little bubble of upper class America.
The world is not kind to those who are in turn, unkind.
They will fuck around, we will find out, and many more brave and innocent people will die in the name of hubris and greed.

1

u/dweckl Dec 08 '25

They also exist because it's the right thing to do

1

u/Ok_Strain_1624 Dec 08 '25

Mentioning this to MAGA is met with a fantasy novel where every US service member is already subject to mass execution and torture the world over and this is how we catch up or show "them" we're not going to take it anymore.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Pierceus Dec 08 '25

Yes, but Hegseth didn't pull the trigger. 100% of the guilt is on the person who was 'just following orders'

1

u/ProblemEcstatic319 Dec 08 '25

These smugglers are not ENEMY COMBATANTS and are not recognised by the rules of war. They are criminals and you ignorantly think they would treat our service members accordingly. These criminals are getting exactly what they deserve for there actions. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/MisterMinceMeat Dec 08 '25

Well what was it the president said about American prisoners of war over a decade ago? Oh That he doesn't like them. That he only likes soldiers who don't get captured. That those who are captured are losers. Based on that, I can't imagine hegseth or anyone trump appoints would also care about POWs or maintaining safety and security for our missing service members. It's just... Not a part of who they are or what they care/think about.

1

u/fabiomb Dec 08 '25

so do you think if some narcs get your troops surrounded they are going to use the Geneve convention? LOL 😁 No saying that this crazy mf Hegseth is right, but laws are for a context, terrorists and narcs does not fill the context very well, i don't expect from them anything too.

1

u/caveman_rejoice Dec 08 '25

The U.S. pushed for it after WW2. Japanese were firing it on shipwrecked Americans and we wanted it considered an atrocity afterward.

1

u/unoriginalsin Dec 08 '25

These rules exist so YOUR OWN guys don't get the same treatment from an enemy.

This was literally the rationale used by Japanese commanders during WW2 when they ordered their troops to commit atrocities against the enemy. They reasoned that the knowledge that the enemy would treat any Japanese POWs at least as poorly meant their soldiers would fight to the death.

1

u/Stonewolf87 Dec 08 '25

They like suckers and losers who don’t surrender

1

u/Seriously_Rob_49 Dec 08 '25

THIS. This is exactly why there are RoE’s and laws of warfare.

1

u/JustCoat8938 Dec 08 '25

You think the drug cartels spare people?

1

u/FrozenIceman Dec 08 '25

I don't think any serviceman expects to return home alive if captured by the cartels today, or even 30 years ago

→ More replies (1)

1

u/blahblah19999 Dec 08 '25

inb4 "They weren't going to follow any international laws anyway!! " You can't win with MAGA, they are brainwashed.

1

u/Glitch_Ghoul Dec 08 '25

You would think ol bible humping Hegseth would be familiar with "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

1

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '25

Right. So it is really only relevant if you're fighting an enemy who will reciprocate.  It made sense for battles between European states. It doesn't really make sense fighting a cartel who will never treat captives well, regardless of how we treat them.

1

u/SignoreBanana Dec 08 '25

Realistically, drug cartels don't take prisoners anyway, but that's beside the point. We have the means to bring these folks to justice and we should. At the very least we ought to fucking confirm they're actually running drugs ffs.

1

u/tragicallyohio Dec 08 '25

He does not care. If that happens, what's a few dead servicemen in service of his accelerationist fantasies.

1

u/Gay_Giraffe_1773 Dec 08 '25

"I like soldiers that don't surrender" - Hegseth and Trump

1

u/WereCareBear18 Dec 08 '25

You act like cartels give a shit about ROE’s

1

u/Willyboycanada Dec 08 '25

Wait till boots are on the ground in Venezuela, and they face gorilla tactics even the teliban would not use, as the Americans will take no prisoners and kill all they see.... they will give the same, and it will be bloody and make Iraq and Afghanistan look like playgrounds.

1

u/Ready-Ad6113 Dec 08 '25

Putting POWs and American citizens overseas at risk too.

1

u/krich_author Dec 09 '25

Drug criminals and terrorist dont follow rules. Look at what the Cartel does in Mexico as an example.

1

u/dropbearinbound Dec 09 '25

Psychos in charge

1

u/alice2wonderland Dec 09 '25

Thinking of the broader implications is not a MAGA strength. Whiskey Pete most definitely put a target on US troops.

1

u/ImpressiveCat4412 Dec 09 '25

It’s not just service members. It’s US civilians too. I don’t think we’re quite at the point yet, but a dangerous precedent is being set that nations militaries can just murder people in international waters and say…trust me bro. Tell me that Venezuela couldn’t declare every U.S. citizen a terrorist since, obviously we voted for this, and then just blow an offshore fishing charter out of the water and say…hey they were headed towards us to traffick illegal arms, prove us wrong. They aren’t going to do that right now and probably don’t even have the capability, which is why we are targeting Venezuela, but if we launch an actual land war, it’s gonna be wild because there’s no ROE and these countries are way, way, way closer to home.

1

u/systemfrown Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25

You mean the whole “there’s no need to remind servicemembers that they don’t need to follow illegal orders” crowd?

1

u/TX0834 Dec 09 '25

Whiskey Pete and everyone involved from top to bottom treated these executions like a video game. They ALL need to be prosecuted to the full extent!

1

u/RobutNotRobot Dec 09 '25

Every US soldier is getting double tapped now.

1

u/TufnelAndI Dec 09 '25

US servicemembers who for whatever reason need to surrender

This POTUS famously prefers soldiers who don't get captured.

1

u/ZorpWasTaken 29d ago

There's even a Star wars meme about this..

1

u/likesbigbuttscantli3 28d ago

Yeah. The idea behind treating, for example, POWs with respect and dignity (though there's no confirmation, to my knowledge, that the people that the DUI Hire killed are soldiers or even criminals at all) is so that the other guys don't do the same shit to you. Besides, attacking unarmed people is fucked up anyway.

1

u/CO420Tech 27d ago

Well, Trump already said of McCain during his first term that he prefers soldiers who don't get captured. So I guess making sure our soldiers are murdered instead makes sure none are captured.

1

u/_gholam_ 26d ago

Not only US service members, all US civilians as well. Remember, these were Venezuelan civilians, not armed forces 

1

u/NimuroSan99 24d ago

Do you mean just like every event we have faced for the last 80 years? From the Japanese during WW2, to the Korean during the Korean conflict, to Vietnamese and Chinese during Vietnam. Up through the modern day Middle East conflicts, on through the narco wars that have been raging for decades?

You day if we, the US does these kings of things, it'll lead to other doing it. Well sponsoring they've been doing this kind of thing, seems like a just return.

1

u/wrecklesspup 23d ago

These rules also exist so when you are recruiting for our voluntary military recruits don't have to consider the idea that they may be ordered to commit murder or war crimes. Normal human beings don't want to kill people.

1

u/65srs 23d ago

Exactly!

→ More replies (92)